5 ms·

Except the issue is that there is a tragedy of commons, as SF increases resources for homeless more and more homeless flock to the city thus requiring ever incr

by ivalm 5y ago

Except the issue is that there is a tragedy of commons, as SF increases resources for homeless more and more homeless flock to the city thus requiring ever increasing amount of resources. I am honestly not sure what to do other than support more nationwide solutions.

IncRnd 5y ago
What solutions would you propose nationwide?
Ericson2314 5y ago
The services should be nation-wide, and should be housing. Everything else is just a palliative.
underseacables 5y ago
Did this happen in Portland? I can’t put my finger on it but I seem to recall something about how Portland’s public assistance largess had become a beacon for people across the country to go to Portland to take it advantage of that. Thus increasing the number of people needing those services, and causing the friction.
- bink 5y ago
  There was a discussion today on NPR about Venice Beach and how they're providing housing to those living on/near the pier so people are migrating up from other neighborhoods to take advantage. It's only a couple hundred people total but it's still an interesting experiment.
bingidingi 5y ago
this also happens in other major cities like NYC, Boston, etc… most of the local homeless are from small cities and towns and go to the city because they hear it’s better… and it is, because many small cities have next to no services for them if you spread out the homeless proportionately to the population of the country it becomes a much more manageable problem
- jboy55 5y ago
  The small towns literally bus or have the police drop off homeless into big cities so they don't have to pay for it. In Santa Cruz, there are tonnes of homeless. 10 miles away in Scotts Valley there are no visible homeless, that's because Scotts valley PD picks up homeless and drops them off in Santa Cruz.
  - bingidingi 5y ago
    and of course conservatives ignore this entirely and blame these cities for creating homeless problems… quite a scheme
    - nebula8804 5y ago
      This is a tech city, start fingerprinting and ID'ing where their real residential address is and send them back after a nice shower and a good hearty meal. If the same people keep coming back, start filing lawsuits against the towns or send them a bill. As soon as this happens the Republican lawmakers will start to pass laws banning this. Assert states right and start pressuring local companies to stop doing business in those states or else face consequences. It would take a leftist with real guts to do stuff like this. I also wonder if it is legal to put checkpoints in the entrance to states so that if a bus arrives, they need to be subject to inspections. This stuff sounds cruel but the cities are not fighting for their tax paying residents. Its unbelievable how much of a scam this country is in favor of typically rural white people. 1) Red states typically get out more than 1$ of every tax dollar they put back in. Source: https://apnews.com/article/north-america-business-local-taxes-ap-top-news-politics-2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c?referringsource=articleshare https://apnews.com/article/north-america-business-local-taxe... 2) Red states get an additional subsidy in the form of sending their homeless to the blue cities. This allows them to reduce their tax burden while increasing the tax burden of an already highly taxed blue electorate. The decreased tax burden directly translates into more renovations to the towns and better quality of life for their citizens(ie more services) while directly reducing the quality of life for the left leaning counties. 3) Red states are overrepresented due to gerrymandering, the electoral college, (and because the Dems never fight), now the supreme court so the mechanisms to change this system are all blocked for the left wing population. We don't have a Democratic party that fights for us. I'm convinced that they are actually on the same side as the Right but only pretend to actually care about the people in the left states and stop all opposition using cancel culture. They of course cater to their wealthy constituents but everyone else that makes up the Democratic party: minorities and the poor are in this hellish limbo where they have no real say in governance yet at the same time are paying and suffering the consequences. Its the modern day slavery. We are starting to see minorities run for congress and challenge the status quo. We also see them get co-opted by the Democratic party and muted or aggressively fought against so that they have to work 10 times as hard to get a chance (ie. AOC's initial opponent outspent her 10 to 1, endorsed by the entire party, baseless accusations of being associated with less that favorable figures) (ex2. Ilhan Omar being blasted whenever she opens her mouth). It sounds like it's going to take a whole generation of effort to finally break this cursed situation that so many people in this country are born into. Sorry for the rant, its just that as a minority living in a left state, it grinds me endlessly that I am paying for these Red state jerks while my quality of life continues on a downward trajectory and at the same time no one will fight for me. Not AOC, not anyone in the Dems for sure. What is the way out?
foobar33333 5y ago
Most places deal with this via border restrictions. One country with better welfare does not allow themselves to be flooded with people from other countries. This problem can not be solved by one city without the ability to restrict movement.
- wyager 5y ago
  It's going to be interesting to see earnest social welfare advocates and earnest open borders advocates realize that their beliefs are totally incompatible. Of course, right now, most of the politicians successfully selling those policies don't really care about either at a deep level.
- digianarchist 5y ago
  Or transfer payments like we do in Canada.
- jboy55 5y ago
  People from other countries do not get welfare in the USA. that is a myth. The problem with 'SF' is people flocking from conservative areas in the US that have solved their homeless problem by literally bussing people to SF. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...
  - foobar33333 5y ago
    My point is that SF can not fix welfare on its own because it doesn't have the power to stop people from other states moving in. It either needs to be a nation wide fix or for the city/state to become its own country.
    - IncRnd 5y ago
      Maybe the rest of the country should stop people moving out of that city/state.
  - IncRnd 5y ago

by ivalm 5y ago

IncRnd 5y ago

What solutions would you propose nationwide?

Ericson2314 5y ago

The services should be nation-wide, and should be housing. Everything else is just a palliative.

underseacables 5y ago

Did this happen in Portland? I can’t put my finger on it but I seem to recall something about how Portland’s public assistance largess had become a beacon for people across the country to go to Portland to take it advantage of that. Thus increasing the number of people needing those services, and causing the friction.

bink 5y ago
There was a discussion today on NPR about Venice Beach and how they're providing housing to those living on/near the pier so people are migrating up from other neighborhoods to take advantage. It's only a couple hundred people total but it's still an interesting experiment.

bingidingi 5y ago

this also happens in other major cities like NYC, Boston, etc… most of the local homeless are from small cities and towns and go to the city because they hear it’s better… and it is, because many small cities have next to no services for them if you spread out the homeless proportionately to the population of the country it becomes a much more manageable problem

jboy55 5y ago
The small towns literally bus or have the police drop off homeless into big cities so they don't have to pay for it. In Santa Cruz, there are tonnes of homeless. 10 miles away in Scotts Valley there are no visible homeless, that's because Scotts valley PD picks up homeless and drops them off in Santa Cruz.
- bingidingi 5y ago
  and of course conservatives ignore this entirely and blame these cities for creating homeless problems… quite a scheme
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    This is a tech city, start fingerprinting and ID'ing where their real residential address is and send them back after a nice shower and a good hearty meal. If the same people keep coming back, start filing lawsuits against the towns or send them a bill. As soon as this happens the Republican lawmakers will start to pass laws banning this. Assert states right and start pressuring local companies to stop doing business in those states or else face consequences. It would take a leftist with real guts to do stuff like this. I also wonder if it is legal to put checkpoints in the entrance to states so that if a bus arrives, they need to be subject to inspections. This stuff sounds cruel but the cities are not fighting for their tax paying residents. Its unbelievable how much of a scam this country is in favor of typically rural white people. 1) Red states typically get out more than 1$ of every tax dollar they put back in. Source: https://apnews.com/article/north-america-business-local-taxes-ap-top-news-politics-2f83c72de1bd440d92cdbc0d3b6bc08c?referringsource=articleshare https://apnews.com/article/north-america-business-local-taxe... 2) Red states get an additional subsidy in the form of sending their homeless to the blue cities. This allows them to reduce their tax burden while increasing the tax burden of an already highly taxed blue electorate. The decreased tax burden directly translates into more renovations to the towns and better quality of life for their citizens(ie more services) while directly reducing the quality of life for the left leaning counties. 3) Red states are overrepresented due to gerrymandering, the electoral college, (and because the Dems never fight), now the supreme court so the mechanisms to change this system are all blocked for the left wing population. We don't have a Democratic party that fights for us. I'm convinced that they are actually on the same side as the Right but only pretend to actually care about the people in the left states and stop all opposition using cancel culture. They of course cater to their wealthy constituents but everyone else that makes up the Democratic party: minorities and the poor are in this hellish limbo where they have no real say in governance yet at the same time are paying and suffering the consequences. Its the modern day slavery. We are starting to see minorities run for congress and challenge the status quo. We also see them get co-opted by the Democratic party and muted or aggressively fought against so that they have to work 10 times as hard to get a chance (ie. AOC's initial opponent outspent her 10 to 1, endorsed by the entire party, baseless accusations of being associated with less that favorable figures) (ex2. Ilhan Omar being blasted whenever she opens her mouth). It sounds like it's going to take a whole generation of effort to finally break this cursed situation that so many people in this country are born into. Sorry for the rant, its just that as a minority living in a left state, it grinds me endlessly that I am paying for these Red state jerks while my quality of life continues on a downward trajectory and at the same time no one will fight for me. Not AOC, not anyone in the Dems for sure. What is the way out?

foobar33333 5y ago

Most places deal with this via border restrictions. One country with better welfare does not allow themselves to be flooded with people from other countries. This problem can not be solved by one city without the ability to restrict movement.

wyager 5y ago
It's going to be interesting to see earnest social welfare advocates and earnest open borders advocates realize that their beliefs are totally incompatible. Of course, right now, most of the politicians successfully selling those policies don't really care about either at a deep level.
digianarchist 5y ago
Or transfer payments like we do in Canada.
jboy55 5y ago
People from other countries do not get welfare in the USA. that is a myth. The problem with 'SF' is people flocking from conservative areas in the US that have solved their homeless problem by literally bussing people to SF. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/20/bussed-out-america-moves-homeless-people-country-study https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...
- foobar33333 5y ago
  My point is that SF can not fix welfare on its own because it doesn't have the power to stop people from other states moving in. It either needs to be a nation wide fix or for the city/state to become its own country.
  - IncRnd 5y ago
    Maybe the rest of the country should stop people moving out of that city/state.
- IncRnd 5y ago