4 ms·

I’m not trying to be needlessly contrarian and am genuinely trying to learn here as I don’t believe I have adequate knowledge on these issues; Having said that

by chunky1994 5y ago

I’m not trying to be needlessly contrarian and am genuinely trying to learn here as I don’t believe I have adequate knowledge on these issues; Having said that could you please cite sources for both (1) and (3)? I can see (2) being acceptable at face value, however (1) seems to be rather dubious given the standard inflation of lifestyle where more affluence leads to moving to areas of more affluence, does it not? For (3) I’d imagine this has more to do with rates of adverse health factors amongst impoverished communities, which I’d be given to believe is relatively evenly distributed if controlling for wealth?

tolbish 5y ago
I found several reports on this after a simple search. Here is one such report: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/milwaukee-segregation-wealthy-black-families.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/milwaukee-segregation-... Here is a noteworthy snippet from that article that you might find useful for future conversations about this: In fact, a New York Times analysis of 2014 census figures shows that income alone cannot explain, nor would it likely end, the segregation that has defined American cities and suburbs for generations. The choices that black families make today are inevitably constrained by a legacy of racism that prevented their ancestors from buying quality housing and then passing down wealth that might have allowed today’s generation to move into more stable communities. And even when black households try to cross color boundaries, they are not always met with open arms: Studies have shown that white people prefer to live in communities where there are fewer black people, regardless of their income. The result: Nationally, black and white families of similar incomes still live in separate worlds.
- chunky1994 5y ago
  Thank you!
nicklecompte 5y ago
toblish did a good job for (1). For (3) there are a number of related effects: - black patients are simply poorly treated by white doctors. One notorious myth (still taught in some medical schools) is that black people have a higher pain tolerance than Whitt people and are less in need of painkillers. This is an extremely serious problem: > “Black people’s nerve endings are less sensitive than white people’s.” “Black people’s skin is thicker than white people’s.” “Black people’s blood coagulates more quickly than white people’s.” > These disturbing beliefs are not long-forgotten 19th-century relics. They are notions harbored by far too many medical students and residents as recently as 2016. In fact, half of trainees surveyed held one or more such false beliefs, according to a study published in the Proceedings of the National Academies of Science. I find it shocking that 40% of first- and second-year medical students endorsed the belief that “black people’s skin is thicker than white people’s.” (source: https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-we-fail-black-patients-pain https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-we-fail-black-patient... ) - white racism itself is a constant source of low-level stress for many black Americans, which is plausibly (but not provably) implicated in numerous health disparities. It is obviously quite difficult to run an ethical controlled experiment here, but I think it’s quite believable that the overall impact of racism on anxiety (even if it’s somewhat minor for many individuals) can add up to a notable disparity in sleep hygiene. I am having trouble finding specific sources because I am on my phone. I am also a mathematician, not a doctor or a sociologist. You could Google Scholar phrase like “medical racism” or “health impacts of discrimination” and do more reading.
- JPKab 5y ago
  I grew up in a predominantly black county, and most of this comment regarding racism being a constant source of stress is absolute hogwash, with zero evidence cited. Not unlike the myth that significant percentages of black Americans are unable to obtain a state ID, it's a belief held by white people with zero firsthand knowledge of black communities. They hear it repeated over and over and have zero firsthand knowledge to make them realize that it's absolutely absurd. As if you can live your life in this day and age without an ID. Also equally absurd is this Hollywood notion that black Americans are getting tiny snippets of racism every day of their lives. It's patently absurd and simply isn't like that. Being poor is extremely stressful. It's really that simple. And acting as if people that live in trailer parks don't suffer health effects worse than more affluent people is also absurd. I can guarantee you didn't live anywhere that was remotely integrated in your entire life. You have an ivory tower view of this entire issue, because these beliefs are a ready indicator of no firsthand knowledge. Also citations of activist organizations are not objective and never will be. Why don't you provide a link from PETA while you're at it about the health effects of meat and see if it's a source of objective knowledge.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

tolbish 5y ago

I found several reports on this after a simple search. Here is one such report: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/milwaukee-segregation-wealthy-black-families.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/milwaukee-segregation-... Here is a noteworthy snippet from that article that you might find useful for future conversations about this: In fact, a New York Times analysis of 2014 census figures shows that income alone cannot explain, nor would it likely end, the segregation that has defined American cities and suburbs for generations. The choices that black families make today are inevitably constrained by a legacy of racism that prevented their ancestors from buying quality housing and then passing down wealth that might have allowed today’s generation to move into more stable communities. And even when black households try to cross color boundaries, they are not always met with open arms: Studies have shown that white people prefer to live in communities where there are fewer black people, regardless of their income. The result: Nationally, black and white families of similar incomes still live in separate worlds.

chunky1994 5y ago
Thank you!

nicklecompte 5y ago

toblish did a good job for (1). For (3) there are a number of related effects: - black patients are simply poorly treated by white doctors. One notorious myth (still taught in some medical schools) is that black people have a higher pain tolerance than Whitt people and are less in need of painkillers. This is an extremely serious problem: > “Black people’s nerve endings are less sensitive than white people’s.” “Black people’s skin is thicker than white people’s.” “Black people’s blood coagulates more quickly than white people’s.” > These disturbing beliefs are not long-forgotten 19th-century relics. They are notions harbored by far too many medical students and residents as recently as 2016. In fact, half of trainees surveyed held one or more such false beliefs, according to a study published in the Proceedings of the National Academies of Science. I find it shocking that 40% of first- and second-year medical students endorsed the belief that “black people’s skin is thicker than white people’s.” (source: https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-we-fail-black-patients-pain https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/how-we-fail-black-patient... ) - white racism itself is a constant source of low-level stress for many black Americans, which is plausibly (but not provably) implicated in numerous health disparities. It is obviously quite difficult to run an ethical controlled experiment here, but I think it’s quite believable that the overall impact of racism on anxiety (even if it’s somewhat minor for many individuals) can add up to a notable disparity in sleep hygiene. I am having trouble finding specific sources because I am on my phone. I am also a mathematician, not a doctor or a sociologist. You could Google Scholar phrase like “medical racism” or “health impacts of discrimination” and do more reading.

JPKab 5y ago
I grew up in a predominantly black county, and most of this comment regarding racism being a constant source of stress is absolute hogwash, with zero evidence cited. Not unlike the myth that significant percentages of black Americans are unable to obtain a state ID, it's a belief held by white people with zero firsthand knowledge of black communities. They hear it repeated over and over and have zero firsthand knowledge to make them realize that it's absolutely absurd. As if you can live your life in this day and age without an ID. Also equally absurd is this Hollywood notion that black Americans are getting tiny snippets of racism every day of their lives. It's patently absurd and simply isn't like that. Being poor is extremely stressful. It's really that simple. And acting as if people that live in trailer parks don't suffer health effects worse than more affluent people is also absurd. I can guarantee you didn't live anywhere that was remotely integrated in your entire life. You have an ivory tower view of this entire issue, because these beliefs are a ready indicator of no firsthand knowledge. Also citations of activist organizations are not objective and never will be. Why don't you provide a link from PETA while you're at it about the health effects of meat and see if it's a source of objective knowledge.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]