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I've never considered a good code review to be "kind" -- and I don't think much will change that. Helping an old lady cross the street. Buying a friend a coffe

I've never considered a good code review to be "kind" -- and I don't think much will change that. Helping an old lady cross the street. Buying a friend a coffee and listening to their troubles. That is kindness: an ethical consideration for others, and a pleasant disposition. It's absolutely essential to have design reviews be rational, and to untangle complicated emotions. The reason flight travel is so safe today is because of these principles -- crash reviews are not about assigning blame, but finding the cause of the crash to prevent further loss of life. But "kindness" does not come into play here, and introducing it will create problems, not solve them. I agree with you, that the "bring the whole person" and "be yourself" part is unrelated good engineering practices. But these are the grounding framework of "psychological safety", which puts the responsibility for my well being in your hands. That's a responsibility that no one can (or should) bear.

throwaways885 5y ago
I think you're conflating kindness and niceness. People are nice to protect the feelings of others, whereas kindness has a more logical component, e.g. being honest when the truth can hurt. You can be kind without being nice. But I believe you're right that people need to take their emotions out of their work.
0xbadcafebee 5y ago
Most of what we do, including writing code, is not rational. We are emotional beings with heuristics. You make irrational decisions in your code all the time. Hell - the fact that your code doesn't come along with a formal proof is evidence of irrationality; do you think the code you hand-crafted doesn't have bugs? Kindness is a tool we use to accomplish work with other emotional irrational beings. The NTSB crash investigations wouldn't work without kindness. You can't run around asking insensitive rude questions in an insanely important/sensitive situation and expect to get cooperation! We are all responsible for each other whether we like it or not, and our ability to work together we'll hinges upon good relationships, which among other things, depends on whether we're kind to each other.
- bjt2n3904 5y ago
  > Most of what we do, including writing code, is not rational. Wow. I knew I was pulling on an ugly root when I started writing against the inclusivity dogma, but this is a little more than I was expecting to unearth. Humans do not need formal proofs for things they do to be considered rational. Full stop. > You can't run around asking insensitive rude questions in an insanely important/sensitive situation and expect to get cooperation! I mean... you did just say the majority of what I did is irrational :'D But. To say that kindness does not factor into NTSB investigations does not mean that the alternative is insensitivity and rudeness.
  - 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
    Dude, I don't care about your problems with minorities, you don't have to bring it up in every conversation. It's like you're fixated on it. > To say that kindness does not factor into NTSB investigations does not mean that the alternative is insensitivity and rudeness. That's exactly what it means. If you're not being kind, then you're being unkind. Lack of kindness is a property of unkindness, just like insensitivity and rudeness. "unkind, adj. 1) Lacking kindness; inconsiderate or unsympathetic. 2) Harsh; severe. 3) Not natural; unnatural. 4) Not sympathetic; lacking in or not springing from or exhibiting kindness, benevolence, or affection; not kind; harsh; cruel. 5) Having no race or kindred; childless. 6) Not kind; contrary to nature, or the law of kind or kindred; unnatural. 7) Wanting in kindness, sympathy, benevolence, gratitude, or the like; cruel; harsh; unjust; ungrateful." Without the properties of kindness, an NTSB investigation would not be able to gather as much evidence. Every hostage negotiator and interrogator knows that you can get a lot more practical information by being kind and trying to be someone's friend, even if they have reason to doubt your motives. Being kind is a great strategy. But it's not just a strategy to fool someone. It's as practical as it is morally good. It fosters better collaboration and communication, it speeds up resolution of conflicts, it removes barriers. Kindness is an indespensible tool to facilitate work between humans. The fact that it's also the morally correct thing to do is a side benefit.
deleted 5y ago
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ElViajero 5y ago
> It's absolutely essential to have design reviews be rational, and to untangle complicated emotions. We should stop hiring humans then, but what is the alternative? I have seen too many engineers getting angry because people is not rational. Like, man, you are getting angry and hyper-emotional but you think that others are irrational.

throwaways885 5y ago

I think you're conflating kindness and niceness. People are nice to protect the feelings of others, whereas kindness has a more logical component, e.g. being honest when the truth can hurt. You can be kind without being nice. But I believe you're right that people need to take their emotions out of their work.

0xbadcafebee 5y ago

Most of what we do, including writing code, is not rational. We are emotional beings with heuristics. You make irrational decisions in your code all the time. Hell - the fact that your code doesn't come along with a formal proof is evidence of irrationality; do you think the code you hand-crafted doesn't have bugs? Kindness is a tool we use to accomplish work with other emotional irrational beings. The NTSB crash investigations wouldn't work without kindness. You can't run around asking insensitive rude questions in an insanely important/sensitive situation and expect to get cooperation! We are all responsible for each other whether we like it or not, and our ability to work together we'll hinges upon good relationships, which among other things, depends on whether we're kind to each other.

bjt2n3904 5y ago
> Most of what we do, including writing code, is not rational. Wow. I knew I was pulling on an ugly root when I started writing against the inclusivity dogma, but this is a little more than I was expecting to unearth. Humans do not need formal proofs for things they do to be considered rational. Full stop. > You can't run around asking insensitive rude questions in an insanely important/sensitive situation and expect to get cooperation! I mean... you did just say the majority of what I did is irrational :'D But. To say that kindness does not factor into NTSB investigations does not mean that the alternative is insensitivity and rudeness.
- 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
  Dude, I don't care about your problems with minorities, you don't have to bring it up in every conversation. It's like you're fixated on it. > To say that kindness does not factor into NTSB investigations does not mean that the alternative is insensitivity and rudeness. That's exactly what it means. If you're not being kind, then you're being unkind. Lack of kindness is a property of unkindness, just like insensitivity and rudeness. "unkind, adj. 1) Lacking kindness; inconsiderate or unsympathetic. 2) Harsh; severe. 3) Not natural; unnatural. 4) Not sympathetic; lacking in or not springing from or exhibiting kindness, benevolence, or affection; not kind; harsh; cruel. 5) Having no race or kindred; childless. 6) Not kind; contrary to nature, or the law of kind or kindred; unnatural. 7) Wanting in kindness, sympathy, benevolence, gratitude, or the like; cruel; harsh; unjust; ungrateful." Without the properties of kindness, an NTSB investigation would not be able to gather as much evidence. Every hostage negotiator and interrogator knows that you can get a lot more practical information by being kind and trying to be someone's friend, even if they have reason to doubt your motives. Being kind is a great strategy. But it's not just a strategy to fool someone. It's as practical as it is morally good. It fosters better collaboration and communication, it speeds up resolution of conflicts, it removes barriers. Kindness is an indespensible tool to facilitate work between humans. The fact that it's also the morally correct thing to do is a side benefit.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ElViajero 5y ago

> It's absolutely essential to have design reviews be rational, and to untangle complicated emotions. We should stop hiring humans then, but what is the alternative? I have seen too many engineers getting angry because people is not rational. Like, man, you are getting angry and hyper-emotional but you think that others are irrational.