9 ms·

Custom domain names are coming to iCloud mail with iCloud+

87 points by blacktulip 5y ago

mark_l_watson 5y ago
I hope that they do this right. I am happy with ProtonMail, but since so few people use ProtonMail, the end to end encryption features is not that valuable. With some reservations, I mostly trust Apple, and it would be good having another privacy preserving email option.
- deregulateMed 5y ago
  Why would you Trust Apple? They are known to bend to the US government (PRISM) and China. Not to mention their denial of multiple hardware issues over the last few decades (butterfly keyboard / iPhone signal) I'm not saying Google or Yahoo is better, I'm saying that it sounds silly to say you Trust Apple.
  - mthoms 5y ago
    They said they “mostly” trust Apple.
  - mark_l_watson 5y ago
    Fair question. No corporation (usually) does anything because it is the right thing to do. Where is their profit motive? For Apple, I think that they have jumped on the privacy bandwagon. Yes, they caved to the Chinese government, but not so much to the US government.
    - deregulateMed 5y ago
      Check out PRISM. Apple has been caught working with the US government to provide mass surveillance data. You've probably heard of Edward Snowden, this is what he uncovered. And yeah for profit corporations make money. Its unethical to advertise privacy and do the opposite.
  - seaghost 5y ago
    At least they’ll not sell ads based on contents of my emails.
    - deregulateMed 5y ago
      I find it a bit odd that creepy toothpaste advertising is a greater sin than providing your thoughts and dreams and sexual behavior to a dictatorship and "Democratic" empire. Maybe this is the human brain trying to rationalize your past behavior in speech and it just sounds silly.
      - AnonHP 5y ago
        You didn’t mention any other companies in your PRISM companies. The others shared data for PRISM AND have been profiling people and selling or sharing their behavioral data.
  - Razengan 5y ago
    Does the concept of “the lesser evil” mean anything to you? Also, in practice, Apple offers objectively much better privacy than Microsoft or Google do. For example, for over a decade now, iCloud Mail aliases let you have completely different addresses tied to your login, instead of exposing your primary address like YourRealAddress+UselessAlias@gmail.com
    - deregulateMed 5y ago
      I'd be careful not to fall for marketing. I'm not actually sure Apple is better than Microsoft. Sure Apple spends money on advertising to say this, but Snowden had to catch Apple to find out they were giving away your emails to the government. Does Apple have better security than Microsoft? They advertise that too, but every other week there's a Apple 0 day exploit. Does Apple make you "Think different"? But make everyone conform to the same apps, web browser, hardware, etc.... I'd be extremely careful not to take marketing/psychology tricks as fact.
      - Razengan 5y ago
        Bruh I just gave an concrete example of how an Apple product/service is objectively better than the Google one.
- decrypt 5y ago
  In the same boat. Happy paying ProtonMail customer at the moment but doesn't serve much value as none of my contacts are ProtonMail users. I see email as an insecure communication medium anyway, so moving to iCloud+ seems like a good idea. Also a Migadu user, but all domains on their micro plan (limit of 5) are used up at the moment.
  - headmelted 5y ago
    I’d be happier to stuff e-mail in the bin wholesale. It’s a terrible technology that should have been put to rest years ago - like phone networks. Any system that requires you to grant all permissions to all contacts, irrevocably in perpetuity, is garbage. Ideally I should be able to generate for you a single GUID when we meet (e.g. by a QR code). I should be able to grant a privilege to you for calling/texting/mailing me. You can call me with it, you can message me, you can mail me - but you never get any other info through that system (nor do I for you). If I ever want to be done with you I delete the GUID and the operator removes the link and declares the GUID out of service. How has Apple and/or Google not already built this? Should stalking victims really be forced to uproot every part of their digital life to get rid of creeps or spammers? It’s ridiculous in 2021 that this isn’t standard.
    - IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
      Apple has already built that. They offer random forward addresses for email form fields and in a list you can manually pick from for real-life interactions. And I think you may be overdoing the contrariness. E-Mail is one of the few open standards still existing, and with the advances of spam filters, it is really not that bad.
      - headmelted 5y ago
        Hide My Email works as a proxy for e-mails, and I really like it, but moreso for privacy than spam. If you have my e-mail address, then you have a means to contact me - even if I don’t want you to. Sure, I can block you, I can ignore you or I can trust that my spam filter will catch your e-mails, but what if you’re malicious? You can circulate my e-mail to any number of spam lists that I’ll have to receive rubbish from in perpetuity. HME works for that, but I’m still stuck giving the same phone number to everyone. Phone numbers are even worse in that I can’t just ignore a call from you (save for declining all calls from withheld or unknown numbers, at which point my phone could be likewise getting called constantly if you were maliciously circulating my details). The notion that the means by which I contact you is the same as how your friend John or cousin Sarah or even your parent/kids/spouse contacts you is insane. We have two systems where you need to arrange with everyone you know to use new details because one single person that had your details is being nasty. And you’ll have to do it all again if they find out your new ones. It’s not at all how you would design a communication system if you were to start over. Something like Hide My Phone Number would be a big help, but wouldn’t work with the existing phone network as you’d need to make far longer phone numbers than the standards support (essentially a number for Apple/Google then a routing GUID for the contact if you wanted to built it on top of the phone network). I’d like to see Apple and Google make a standard to push to replace phone numbers with something like this that can sit inside the dialer so it’ll handle it transparently as if it were a normal call.
- headmelted 5y ago
  Another privacy preserving email option Wouldn’t this utterly undermine the privacy features in Hide My Email? Example: If my e-mail addresses are me@mailboxman.com and ghj5628@mailboxman.com then combining my MX records with the domain name yields my identity (or at least a very close contact) across all of the proxy e-mails I use for privacy. It’s essentially offering an easy way to unmask email.
  - bnj 5y ago
    It would make sense to me if hide my email continued to generate a random iCloud address and it redirected to your custom domain email. I doubt they would create a random email at the custom domain, for exactly this reason.
swiley 5y ago
That's exiting. I know a number of people who use custom domains but don't actually self host because they like the flexibility to move between mail providers without losing their social graph. It would be awesome if this became more common.
- remram 5y ago
  I would love to self-host but I'm worried about losing emails. I self-host many services but this is the one thing that I need to be reliable (both inbound and outbound) and I can't claim to understand fully (DKIM etc). Redirecting emails doesn't work great though, Gmail marks a lot of incoming emails as spam, I assume signatures don't match after redirection.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    What would be nice is a self-host that “hides” behind Google Apps or O365 thereby allowing you to change that part without changing the rest of your setup.
- Tijdreiziger 5y ago
  I think almost nobody who uses a custom domain self-hosts. From what I've heard it's very hard to get your mail delivered consistently if you run a small and/or young mailserver, and with the plethora of ~good, cheap mail hosts out there, there's really no reason to go the self-hosting route.
  - navanchauhan 5y ago
    A lot of people (including me), do self-host emails. Nowadays, with software like Mail-In-A-Box, it’s as easy as one click install and few DNS settings. Although, I do concede in some rare occasions, not everything goes well.
  - vbezhenar 5y ago
    While I don't self host anymore, I, personally, did not have problems with Gmail delivery once all things were properly set up. Have no idea about other providers. The thing that seems to be almost impossible to have with self-hosting is iOS push. What I don't like with self-hosting is that I can't really self-host my mail. It'll run in VPS which kind of defeats the purpose of self-hosting. I have my home server, but setting up PTR record is impossible (for reasonable money) with my home ISP. Also I guess that my home IP address will not have good reputation. And as I can't really self-host my mail, I just decided to delegate it to fastmail. I had my share of fun setting up postfix/dovecot/spamassassin, it was not that hard, just took some time, and I don't think that it makes a lot of sense to continue.
AnonC 5y ago
Custom domain support and the new iCloud relay (though it’s primarily for Safari right now) could really make users in the free iCloud tier switch to the paid iCloud+ service. It’s a very nice strategy, IMO. > There’s no word on if this will require Family Sharing or if you’d have the ability to invite others outside of your family that have not been added to your Apple Family configuration. My guess is that this will be rolled out as part of family sharing to keep it simple (at least for Apple). > Of course, this announcement could eventually pave the way for Apple to offer business and school email over iCloud as a direct competitor to Google and Microsoft. I strongly doubt that. I don’t think Apple would get into this space anytime soon. If it did, then it could be as a complete online office suite combined with email.
- nceqs3 5y ago
  I bet that Icloud relay will eventually function the same as a VPN allowing all internet traffic to flow through it. The beta is pretty buggy right now though.
jdgoesmarching 5y ago
Hope this doesn’t suck so I can stop paying Google for a gsuite account that gives me less consumer features than a free account. I’m aware of alternatives, none really justify the switching cost for me.
- giancarlostoro 5y ago
  Honestly a gsuite competitor would make a solid startup if anyones brave enough. Everyone complains about all the current options. Its definitely a spot even I feel is missing. The only real alternative is to just pay Microsoft monthly for their version which is quite competitively reasonable.
  - robjan 5y ago
    Zoho is also an alternative but I have heard stories of questionable privacy practices
    - xNeil 5y ago
      Any sources? Happy Zoho customer here.
      - robjan 5y ago
        Purely anecdotal. I have seen a few people on HN and Reddit complaining about their outgoing mail being quarantined due to having a sensitive word in it and the support staff reading the email without their consent.
hs86 5y ago
I don't trust them. Apple's privacy efforts might be admirable, but I don't trust them to deliver a reliable service in the long run, especially on platforms that aren't their own or in platforms they declared as deprecated. For example, most parts of iCloud are missing on Android, and their iCloud client for Windows has been broken for months or even years. Its log complains about launching iCloudDrive-AppX.exe while the install directory doesn't contain any executables with a "-AppX.exe" suffix. So no file syncing for me on Windows, I guess. Having client site updates tied to major macOS/iOS releases is also sometimes causing strange issues if I still want to use older versions of macOS and iOS. The happy path is only using devices from Apple and always staying on their latest OS release. No idea how attractive this new feature is for people who already use custom domains because they don't want to be tied to a single provider.
- bredren 5y ago
  > Apple’s privacy practices might be admirable This is an understatement. The company continues to set the bar for security and data privacy across the entire stack. RE staying within recent OS and devices for a happy path, I’m already fully on board with this. I update iPhone every year and my oldest machine is a 2018 MBA. I think Apple does a better job supporting older equipment than other companies, and deprecates mostly to make valuable pushes forward.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    I might have agreed with you 5 years ago, but when Apple dropped support for 32-bit apps (and later x86 altogether) I had to switch over to Linux. If they were a little more considerate towards their power-users and developers, I could probably loop a Mac in for ~60% of my daily workflow. Nowadays though, I'd rather just use an OS that lets me do 95% of the stuff I do without compromise.
    - Terretta 5y ago
      > dropped support for 32-bit apps and x86 Just this past week: https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/30/os-x-lion-mountain-lion-free-to-download/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/30/os-x-lion-mountain-lion... From the article: Apple has kept OS X 10.7 Lion and OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion available for customers who have machines limited to the older software, but until recently, Apple was charging $19.99 to get download codes for the updates. As of last week, these updates no longer require a fee, and can be downloaded from the OS X Lion and OS X Mountain Lion support documents on Apple's website. Mac OS X Lion is compatible with Macs that have an Intel Core 2 Duo, Core i3, Core i5, Core i7, or Xeon processor, a minimum of 2GB RAM, and 7GB storage space. Mac OS X Mountain Lion is compatible with the following Macs: iMac (Mid 2007-2020) MacBook (Late 2008 Aluminum, or Early 2009 or newer) MacBook Pro (Mid/Late 2007 or newer) MacBook Air (Late 2008 or newer) Mac mini (Early 2009 or newer) Mac Pro (Early 2008 or newer) Xserve (Early 2009) How much older do power-users and developers need?
bredren 5y ago
This is great news. My question is how good will the web applications be to replace the rest of gsuite. And while I am hoping to switch to Apple Mail on my Mac w the new MacOs, I kinda need a web application as fast and swifty as gmail for search. My concern would be that Apple keeps sticking with the UX of their Numbers and Pages applications which have never sat well with me. I want them to do a copy of word or docs and excel or sheets. I need a web version of Google docs and sheets that is as good or superior to what gsuite has. Numbers and Pages are not it.
- cunthorpe 5y ago
  The two are not exclusive. You can have Apple handle your mail and Google everything else. If anything, splitting mail from “stuff” is a smart move nowadays. Not everything needs to be under one roof.
  - bredren 5y ago
    I actually don’t trust Google with the documents. In many cases they contain more valuable information about new ideas and directions for products than my email. My goal would be to move completely away from Google. I have no problem going all in on Apple. I’ve tried Microsoft office’s solution and it’s so messy with its weird domains and logins, attempts to work w the installed apps. I’m looking for non-infiltrated versions of the gsuite apps.
slartibardfast0 5y ago
really hope they make this available with a simple authorization (& if needed, billing) for non-family share folks. I'm one of many families that share a tld much more widely than any 'family sharing' group could accommodate, up to and including acquaintances from the internet.

87 points by blacktulip 5y ago

I hope that they do this right. I am happy with ProtonMail, but since so few people use ProtonMail, the end to end encryption features is not that valuable. With some reservations, I mostly trust Apple, and it would be good having another privacy preserving email option.

deregulateMed 5y ago
Why would you Trust Apple? They are known to bend to the US government (PRISM) and China. Not to mention their denial of multiple hardware issues over the last few decades (butterfly keyboard / iPhone signal) I'm not saying Google or Yahoo is better, I'm saying that it sounds silly to say you Trust Apple.
- mthoms 5y ago
  They said they “mostly” trust Apple.
- mark_l_watson 5y ago
  Fair question. No corporation (usually) does anything because it is the right thing to do. Where is their profit motive? For Apple, I think that they have jumped on the privacy bandwagon. Yes, they caved to the Chinese government, but not so much to the US government.
  - deregulateMed 5y ago
    Check out PRISM. Apple has been caught working with the US government to provide mass surveillance data. You've probably heard of Edward Snowden, this is what he uncovered. And yeah for profit corporations make money. Its unethical to advertise privacy and do the opposite.
- seaghost 5y ago
  At least they’ll not sell ads based on contents of my emails.
  - deregulateMed 5y ago
    I find it a bit odd that creepy toothpaste advertising is a greater sin than providing your thoughts and dreams and sexual behavior to a dictatorship and "Democratic" empire. Maybe this is the human brain trying to rationalize your past behavior in speech and it just sounds silly.
    - AnonHP 5y ago
      You didn’t mention any other companies in your PRISM companies. The others shared data for PRISM AND have been profiling people and selling or sharing their behavioral data.
- Razengan 5y ago
  Does the concept of “the lesser evil” mean anything to you? Also, in practice, Apple offers objectively much better privacy than Microsoft or Google do. For example, for over a decade now, iCloud Mail aliases let you have completely different addresses tied to your login, instead of exposing your primary address like YourRealAddress+UselessAlias@gmail.com
  - deregulateMed 5y ago
    I'd be careful not to fall for marketing. I'm not actually sure Apple is better than Microsoft. Sure Apple spends money on advertising to say this, but Snowden had to catch Apple to find out they were giving away your emails to the government. Does Apple have better security than Microsoft? They advertise that too, but every other week there's a Apple 0 day exploit. Does Apple make you "Think different"? But make everyone conform to the same apps, web browser, hardware, etc.... I'd be extremely careful not to take marketing/psychology tricks as fact.
    - Razengan 5y ago
      Bruh I just gave an concrete example of how an Apple product/service is objectively better than the Google one.
decrypt 5y ago
In the same boat. Happy paying ProtonMail customer at the moment but doesn't serve much value as none of my contacts are ProtonMail users. I see email as an insecure communication medium anyway, so moving to iCloud+ seems like a good idea. Also a Migadu user, but all domains on their micro plan (limit of 5) are used up at the moment.
- headmelted 5y ago
  I’d be happier to stuff e-mail in the bin wholesale. It’s a terrible technology that should have been put to rest years ago - like phone networks. Any system that requires you to grant all permissions to all contacts, irrevocably in perpetuity, is garbage. Ideally I should be able to generate for you a single GUID when we meet (e.g. by a QR code). I should be able to grant a privilege to you for calling/texting/mailing me. You can call me with it, you can message me, you can mail me - but you never get any other info through that system (nor do I for you). If I ever want to be done with you I delete the GUID and the operator removes the link and declares the GUID out of service. How has Apple and/or Google not already built this? Should stalking victims really be forced to uproot every part of their digital life to get rid of creeps or spammers? It’s ridiculous in 2021 that this isn’t standard.
  - IfOnlyYouKnew 5y ago
    Apple has already built that. They offer random forward addresses for email form fields and in a list you can manually pick from for real-life interactions. And I think you may be overdoing the contrariness. E-Mail is one of the few open standards still existing, and with the advances of spam filters, it is really not that bad.
    - headmelted 5y ago
      Hide My Email works as a proxy for e-mails, and I really like it, but moreso for privacy than spam. If you have my e-mail address, then you have a means to contact me - even if I don’t want you to. Sure, I can block you, I can ignore you or I can trust that my spam filter will catch your e-mails, but what if you’re malicious? You can circulate my e-mail to any number of spam lists that I’ll have to receive rubbish from in perpetuity. HME works for that, but I’m still stuck giving the same phone number to everyone. Phone numbers are even worse in that I can’t just ignore a call from you (save for declining all calls from withheld or unknown numbers, at which point my phone could be likewise getting called constantly if you were maliciously circulating my details). The notion that the means by which I contact you is the same as how your friend John or cousin Sarah or even your parent/kids/spouse contacts you is insane. We have two systems where you need to arrange with everyone you know to use new details because one single person that had your details is being nasty. And you’ll have to do it all again if they find out your new ones. It’s not at all how you would design a communication system if you were to start over. Something like Hide My Phone Number would be a big help, but wouldn’t work with the existing phone network as you’d need to make far longer phone numbers than the standards support (essentially a number for Apple/Google then a routing GUID for the contact if you wanted to built it on top of the phone network). I’d like to see Apple and Google make a standard to push to replace phone numbers with something like this that can sit inside the dialer so it’ll handle it transparently as if it were a normal call.
headmelted 5y ago
Another privacy preserving email option Wouldn’t this utterly undermine the privacy features in Hide My Email? Example: If my e-mail addresses are me@mailboxman.com and ghj5628@mailboxman.com then combining my MX records with the domain name yields my identity (or at least a very close contact) across all of the proxy e-mails I use for privacy. It’s essentially offering an easy way to unmask email.
- bnj 5y ago
  It would make sense to me if hide my email continued to generate a random iCloud address and it redirected to your custom domain email. I doubt they would create a random email at the custom domain, for exactly this reason.

swiley 5y ago

That's exiting. I know a number of people who use custom domains but don't actually self host because they like the flexibility to move between mail providers without losing their social graph. It would be awesome if this became more common.

remram 5y ago
I would love to self-host but I'm worried about losing emails. I self-host many services but this is the one thing that I need to be reliable (both inbound and outbound) and I can't claim to understand fully (DKIM etc). Redirecting emails doesn't work great though, Gmail marks a lot of incoming emails as spam, I assume signatures don't match after redirection.
- bombcar 5y ago
  What would be nice is a self-host that “hides” behind Google Apps or O365 thereby allowing you to change that part without changing the rest of your setup.
Tijdreiziger 5y ago
I think almost nobody who uses a custom domain self-hosts. From what I've heard it's very hard to get your mail delivered consistently if you run a small and/or young mailserver, and with the plethora of ~good, cheap mail hosts out there, there's really no reason to go the self-hosting route.
- navanchauhan 5y ago
  A lot of people (including me), do self-host emails. Nowadays, with software like Mail-In-A-Box, it’s as easy as one click install and few DNS settings. Although, I do concede in some rare occasions, not everything goes well.
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  While I don't self host anymore, I, personally, did not have problems with Gmail delivery once all things were properly set up. Have no idea about other providers. The thing that seems to be almost impossible to have with self-hosting is iOS push. What I don't like with self-hosting is that I can't really self-host my mail. It'll run in VPS which kind of defeats the purpose of self-hosting. I have my home server, but setting up PTR record is impossible (for reasonable money) with my home ISP. Also I guess that my home IP address will not have good reputation. And as I can't really self-host my mail, I just decided to delegate it to fastmail. I had my share of fun setting up postfix/dovecot/spamassassin, it was not that hard, just took some time, and I don't think that it makes a lot of sense to continue.

AnonC 5y ago

Custom domain support and the new iCloud relay (though it’s primarily for Safari right now) could really make users in the free iCloud tier switch to the paid iCloud+ service. It’s a very nice strategy, IMO. > There’s no word on if this will require Family Sharing or if you’d have the ability to invite others outside of your family that have not been added to your Apple Family configuration. My guess is that this will be rolled out as part of family sharing to keep it simple (at least for Apple). > Of course, this announcement could eventually pave the way for Apple to offer business and school email over iCloud as a direct competitor to Google and Microsoft. I strongly doubt that. I don’t think Apple would get into this space anytime soon. If it did, then it could be as a complete online office suite combined with email.

nceqs3 5y ago
I bet that Icloud relay will eventually function the same as a VPN allowing all internet traffic to flow through it. The beta is pretty buggy right now though.

jdgoesmarching 5y ago

Hope this doesn’t suck so I can stop paying Google for a gsuite account that gives me less consumer features than a free account. I’m aware of alternatives, none really justify the switching cost for me.

giancarlostoro 5y ago
Honestly a gsuite competitor would make a solid startup if anyones brave enough. Everyone complains about all the current options. Its definitely a spot even I feel is missing. The only real alternative is to just pay Microsoft monthly for their version which is quite competitively reasonable.
- robjan 5y ago
  Zoho is also an alternative but I have heard stories of questionable privacy practices
  - xNeil 5y ago
    Any sources? Happy Zoho customer here.
    - robjan 5y ago
      Purely anecdotal. I have seen a few people on HN and Reddit complaining about their outgoing mail being quarantined due to having a sensitive word in it and the support staff reading the email without their consent.

hs86 5y ago

I don't trust them. Apple's privacy efforts might be admirable, but I don't trust them to deliver a reliable service in the long run, especially on platforms that aren't their own or in platforms they declared as deprecated. For example, most parts of iCloud are missing on Android, and their iCloud client for Windows has been broken for months or even years. Its log complains about launching iCloudDrive-AppX.exe while the install directory doesn't contain any executables with a "-AppX.exe" suffix. So no file syncing for me on Windows, I guess. Having client site updates tied to major macOS/iOS releases is also sometimes causing strange issues if I still want to use older versions of macOS and iOS. The happy path is only using devices from Apple and always staying on their latest OS release. No idea how attractive this new feature is for people who already use custom domains because they don't want to be tied to a single provider.

bredren 5y ago
> Apple’s privacy practices might be admirable This is an understatement. The company continues to set the bar for security and data privacy across the entire stack. RE staying within recent OS and devices for a happy path, I’m already fully on board with this. I update iPhone every year and my oldest machine is a 2018 MBA. I think Apple does a better job supporting older equipment than other companies, and deprecates mostly to make valuable pushes forward.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I might have agreed with you 5 years ago, but when Apple dropped support for 32-bit apps (and later x86 altogether) I had to switch over to Linux. If they were a little more considerate towards their power-users and developers, I could probably loop a Mac in for ~60% of my daily workflow. Nowadays though, I'd rather just use an OS that lets me do 95% of the stuff I do without compromise.
  - Terretta 5y ago
    > dropped support for 32-bit apps and x86 Just this past week: https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/30/os-x-lion-mountain-lion-free-to-download/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/06/30/os-x-lion-mountain-lion... From the article: Apple has kept OS X 10.7 Lion and OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion available for customers who have machines limited to the older software, but until recently, Apple was charging $19.99 to get download codes for the updates. As of last week, these updates no longer require a fee, and can be downloaded from the OS X Lion and OS X Mountain Lion support documents on Apple's website. Mac OS X Lion is compatible with Macs that have an Intel Core 2 Duo, Core i3, Core i5, Core i7, or Xeon processor, a minimum of 2GB RAM, and 7GB storage space. Mac OS X Mountain Lion is compatible with the following Macs: iMac (Mid 2007-2020) MacBook (Late 2008 Aluminum, or Early 2009 or newer) MacBook Pro (Mid/Late 2007 or newer) MacBook Air (Late 2008 or newer) Mac mini (Early 2009 or newer) Mac Pro (Early 2008 or newer) Xserve (Early 2009) How much older do power-users and developers need?

bredren 5y ago

This is great news. My question is how good will the web applications be to replace the rest of gsuite. And while I am hoping to switch to Apple Mail on my Mac w the new MacOs, I kinda need a web application as fast and swifty as gmail for search. My concern would be that Apple keeps sticking with the UX of their Numbers and Pages applications which have never sat well with me. I want them to do a copy of word or docs and excel or sheets. I need a web version of Google docs and sheets that is as good or superior to what gsuite has. Numbers and Pages are not it.

cunthorpe 5y ago
The two are not exclusive. You can have Apple handle your mail and Google everything else. If anything, splitting mail from “stuff” is a smart move nowadays. Not everything needs to be under one roof.
- bredren 5y ago
  I actually don’t trust Google with the documents. In many cases they contain more valuable information about new ideas and directions for products than my email. My goal would be to move completely away from Google. I have no problem going all in on Apple. I’ve tried Microsoft office’s solution and it’s so messy with its weird domains and logins, attempts to work w the installed apps. I’m looking for non-infiltrated versions of the gsuite apps.

slartibardfast0 5y ago

really hope they make this available with a simple authorization (& if needed, billing) for non-family share folks. I'm one of many families that share a tld much more widely than any 'family sharing' group could accommodate, up to and including acquaintances from the internet.