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Thanks for this commentary. My thinking when writing the article was certainly not that startups should, to use your words, give away what they earn the salvage

Thanks for this commentary. My thinking when writing the article was certainly not that startups should, to use your words, give away what they earn the salvage the prospects of those who are failing. My personal feeling is that tech entrepreneurs should be less encumbered and more free to innovate and anything that remotely approaches turning the tech sector into something that resembles a welfare state is anathema to me. What we do in the Valley (using that as code for tech hubs) though does reverberate around the country and world. The types of startups we create affect people we'll never meet in places we'll never go (one of the potentially wonderful things about technology). The conversation that I'd love to see more of then is should we in the Valley care about what's happening elsewhere in the country. But I deliberately wanted to stop short in the article of making any judgments. I think it's a perfectly rational approach to say as a tech entrepreneur that as long as I'm not breaking any laws in the process, any negative externalities (or lack of positive externalities) associated with the product I'm building shouldn't be my concern. I don't believe that personally but feel everyone has the right to their opinion on that matter.

deleted 15y ago
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pointillistic 15y ago
Jon, I detect an evolution in your views on the subject. I commend you for that.
grellas 15y ago
Thanks for the gracious reply. In looking at my original comment in light of your reply, I do think it was a bit harshly worded and for that I apologize. Entrepreneurs, as a matter of conscience, ought to be more socially aware about what effect their activities are having and your piece does a good job of reminding them of that. Didn't mean to engage in a "legalistic" mugging, as we appear to be of the same view on all fundamentals. Harshness aside, I can only hope that my comments nonetheless help to bring added clarity to the discussion.
- invalidOrTaken 15y ago
  I'm certain they did, and any serious discussion must proceed from the points you mentioned. At the end of the day, the problem is one of better education or tool-making, because those are what will allow the unskilled to do something worth paying for. Startups excel at tool-making. Building better mousetraps is often seen as purely destructive to jobs, but it also creates jobs like crazy when a formerly-unavailable tool suddenly becomes available and lower-priced demand can be satisfied. The availability bias works against us here because although it's easy to see that robotic factories destroy textile-worker jobs, it's hard to realize that cheaper computer costs will mean companies won't mind hiring for data entry, as now they only have to pay $400 a box as opposed to $1 million for a mainframe. In terms of creating jobs, the most saintly of tech people are probably the UX designers who can take something a layman normally couldn't grasp, and put it within their reach. Solar panels don't create jobs for the uneducated. Solar panels so easy to install that you can hire minimum wage workers to install them DO create jobs for the uneducated. For whatever reasons, startups have not had similar success with education. But this will undoubtedly be a hot space for the next few years, because though the growing divide isn't the Valley's "fault," modern education is a real problem and needs addressing. Startups, you want to create jobs while still making a killing? Take something hard and make it easy, or take clueless people and make them smart.
prbuckley 15y ago
I am a yc alum who actually started a manufacturing business in san francisco. My business is unusual in that it is part of our mission to help protect a dying industry (bookbinding). In one year we have created jobs for 40 people in a low tech sector of the economy. If you want to find other business like this in the bay area check out http://www.sfmade.org/ http://www.sfmade.org/.

deleted 15y ago

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pointillistic 15y ago

Jon, I detect an evolution in your views on the subject. I commend you for that.

grellas 15y ago

Thanks for the gracious reply. In looking at my original comment in light of your reply, I do think it was a bit harshly worded and for that I apologize. Entrepreneurs, as a matter of conscience, ought to be more socially aware about what effect their activities are having and your piece does a good job of reminding them of that. Didn't mean to engage in a "legalistic" mugging, as we appear to be of the same view on all fundamentals. Harshness aside, I can only hope that my comments nonetheless help to bring added clarity to the discussion.

invalidOrTaken 15y ago
I'm certain they did, and any serious discussion must proceed from the points you mentioned. At the end of the day, the problem is one of better education or tool-making, because those are what will allow the unskilled to do something worth paying for. Startups excel at tool-making. Building better mousetraps is often seen as purely destructive to jobs, but it also creates jobs like crazy when a formerly-unavailable tool suddenly becomes available and lower-priced demand can be satisfied. The availability bias works against us here because although it's easy to see that robotic factories destroy textile-worker jobs, it's hard to realize that cheaper computer costs will mean companies won't mind hiring for data entry, as now they only have to pay $400 a box as opposed to $1 million for a mainframe. In terms of creating jobs, the most saintly of tech people are probably the UX designers who can take something a layman normally couldn't grasp, and put it within their reach. Solar panels don't create jobs for the uneducated. Solar panels so easy to install that you can hire minimum wage workers to install them DO create jobs for the uneducated. For whatever reasons, startups have not had similar success with education. But this will undoubtedly be a hot space for the next few years, because though the growing divide isn't the Valley's "fault," modern education is a real problem and needs addressing. Startups, you want to create jobs while still making a killing? Take something hard and make it easy, or take clueless people and make them smart.

prbuckley 15y ago

I am a yc alum who actually started a manufacturing business in san francisco. My business is unusual in that it is part of our mission to help protect a dying industry (bookbinding). In one year we have created jobs for 40 people in a low tech sector of the economy. If you want to find other business like this in the bay area check out http://www.sfmade.org/ http://www.sfmade.org/.