5 ms·

I'd be wary of extrapolating from one exceptional person in the bay area to the entire country... Probably most cops aren't the single highest paid person in th

by blix 5y ago

I'd be wary of extrapolating from one exceptional person in the bay area to the entire country... Probably most cops aren't the single highest paid person in their municipality.

newbie789 5y ago
Here are more articles and studies on this topic. I didn’t extrapolate from one example, I just used one in my post (this is why I used the phrase “for example”) https://www.governing.com/archive/gov-police-officers-overworked-cops.html https://www.governing.com/archive/gov-police-officers-overwo... https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewdepietro/2020/04/23/police-officer-salary-state/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewdepietro/2020/04/23/polic... https://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-lender-police-pay-20161208-column.html https://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-lender-police-pay-2... https://www.marketplace.org/2020/07/03/police-departments-have-spent-millions-in-overtime-during-protests/ https://www.marketplace.org/2020/07/03/police-departments-ha... https://www.foxnews.com/us/15-portland-police-officers-see-large-earnings-largely-driven-by-overtime-amid-protests https://www.foxnews.com/us/15-portland-police-officers-see-l... I’d personally be wary of extrapolating “this webpage says that some police officers that make less money than others” to “$100 is a significant amount of money for an average cop.”
- blix 5y ago
  For your example you picked the highest paid officer in one of the richest areas in the state where police officers make the most money. It does seem that police in California make a ton of money, but it's really not representative of the entire country. Take a look at that Forbes link you posted. Despite reading your articles, I still don't think $100/hr is a reasonable approximation of an average cop's hourly rate, and thats before getting into the fact that the guy making half a million for watching Warriors games is probably not the guy pulling you over.
  - newbie789 5y ago
    > Despite reading your articles, I still don't think $100/hr is a reasonable approximation of an average cop's hourly rate I’ve personally never said that police make more than $100 per hour, in fact I specifically said that despite not knowing what the hourly wage works out to, I don’t think that $100 would be a significant amount of money to most cops. If your premise is “you can bribe anyone as long as the dollar amount is higher than the wages from one hour of work,” then I suppose it’s impossible to discuss in good faith. My premise is “$100 isn’t usually enough to bribe people that make high five figures or more.” I’m not entirely sure why hourly wage is supposed to fit in here.
    - blix 5y ago
      > I’m not entirely sure why hourly wage is supposed to fit in here. Please read the original post I responded to. It explicitly mentions hourly wage which is the only reason I mentioned it at all. I thought their estimate seemed a little high. Thank you for stating your premise, I didn't find it clear in your earlier posts. I don't have strong opinions about how much is enough to bribe someone who makes X as I am not aware of any good sources of data that deal with this question. Maybe a table of attempted bribes with metadata. I'll run some experiments and get back to you.
      - newbie789 5y ago
        I’d suggest a wonderful book called The End of Policing by Alex Vitale. I’ve read it cover to cover many times and it may include some insight that you’d enjoy.
        blix 5y ago
        I appreciate the suggestion :) I will add it to my list. Based on a quick glance at some synopses, it seems the author accurate identifies the role of police in society but perhaps doesn't adequately account for how society would change if the police were removed but the driving force for their existence remained in place.
        5y ago
haroldp 5y ago
Here's a search for the pay for every "sergeant" in my state. Not brand new cops, but not lieutenants, captains of chiefs either: https://transparentnevada.com/salaries/search/?q=sergeant https://transparentnevada.com/salaries/search/?q=sergeant Cops make a lot more than most people realize.
- blix 5y ago
  $100/hr works out to about $200k/yr, maybe a little more or less depending on how much vacation you get and assuming no overtime (for convenience despite the sibling comment). Based on your data, the represents about the top percentile of police sergeant pay (not including benefits). Actually in the most recent available year only 1 out of 250 passes this threshold, with the median at around ~$85k. Unless this website is just a tool for police to hide how much they earn too? It's a good amount of money for a blue collar job, but I think you're overselling it, especially for HN.
  - haroldp 5y ago
    Why wouldn't you include benefits? Do you consider benefits when accepting a job? Would cops accept only base pay as compensation? I am paying for these benefits, and they are not, like $50/mo into your 401k benefits. They are golden-parachute, retire young, benefits. They are part of total compensation, and it would be dishonest to talk about cop pay without including them. Almost every police sergeant makes over $100k in total compensation. At least 10% make more than $200k.
    - blix 5y ago
      Because I'm not convinced of the reliability of benfit-to-dollar conversions, especially given their history as a way to distract from falling real wages. I personally value real salary much higher than benefit equivalent. Maybe the police department is overpaying for dental insurance from an agency run by the chief's cousin's wife. You raise a valid point but it makes the analysis more complicated. Even given the way you run the numbers, however, I think you are still overestimating the hourly rate for the average cop. If you judge the wealth of the world by the top 10%, poverty has been eliminated.
heavyset_go 5y ago
There are a lot of places in the US where the chief of police is the highest paid employee on a municipality's payroll.

by blix 5y ago

I'd be wary of extrapolating from one exceptional person in the bay area to the entire country... Probably most cops aren't the single highest paid person in their municipality.

newbie789 5y ago

Here are more articles and studies on this topic. I didn’t extrapolate from one example, I just used one in my post (this is why I used the phrase “for example”) https://www.governing.com/archive/gov-police-officers-overworked-cops.html https://www.governing.com/archive/gov-police-officers-overwo... https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewdepietro/2020/04/23/police-officer-salary-state/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewdepietro/2020/04/23/polic... https://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-lender-police-pay-20161208-column.html https://www.courant.com/breaking-news/hc-lender-police-pay-2... https://www.marketplace.org/2020/07/03/police-departments-have-spent-millions-in-overtime-during-protests/ https://www.marketplace.org/2020/07/03/police-departments-ha... https://www.foxnews.com/us/15-portland-police-officers-see-large-earnings-largely-driven-by-overtime-amid-protests https://www.foxnews.com/us/15-portland-police-officers-see-l... I’d personally be wary of extrapolating “this webpage says that some police officers that make less money than others” to “$100 is a significant amount of money for an average cop.”

blix 5y ago
For your example you picked the highest paid officer in one of the richest areas in the state where police officers make the most money. It does seem that police in California make a ton of money, but it's really not representative of the entire country. Take a look at that Forbes link you posted. Despite reading your articles, I still don't think $100/hr is a reasonable approximation of an average cop's hourly rate, and thats before getting into the fact that the guy making half a million for watching Warriors games is probably not the guy pulling you over.
- newbie789 5y ago
  > Despite reading your articles, I still don't think $100/hr is a reasonable approximation of an average cop's hourly rate I’ve personally never said that police make more than $100 per hour, in fact I specifically said that despite not knowing what the hourly wage works out to, I don’t think that $100 would be a significant amount of money to most cops. If your premise is “you can bribe anyone as long as the dollar amount is higher than the wages from one hour of work,” then I suppose it’s impossible to discuss in good faith. My premise is “$100 isn’t usually enough to bribe people that make high five figures or more.” I’m not entirely sure why hourly wage is supposed to fit in here.
  - blix 5y ago
    > I’m not entirely sure why hourly wage is supposed to fit in here. Please read the original post I responded to. It explicitly mentions hourly wage which is the only reason I mentioned it at all. I thought their estimate seemed a little high. Thank you for stating your premise, I didn't find it clear in your earlier posts. I don't have strong opinions about how much is enough to bribe someone who makes X as I am not aware of any good sources of data that deal with this question. Maybe a table of attempted bribes with metadata. I'll run some experiments and get back to you.
    - newbie789 5y ago
      I’d suggest a wonderful book called The End of Policing by Alex Vitale. I’ve read it cover to cover many times and it may include some insight that you’d enjoy.
      - blix 5y ago
        I appreciate the suggestion :) I will add it to my list. Based on a quick glance at some synopses, it seems the author accurate identifies the role of police in society but perhaps doesn't adequately account for how society would change if the police were removed but the driving force for their existence remained in place.
        5y ago

haroldp 5y ago

Here's a search for the pay for every "sergeant" in my state. Not brand new cops, but not lieutenants, captains of chiefs either: https://transparentnevada.com/salaries/search/?q=sergeant https://transparentnevada.com/salaries/search/?q=sergeant Cops make a lot more than most people realize.

blix 5y ago
$100/hr works out to about $200k/yr, maybe a little more or less depending on how much vacation you get and assuming no overtime (for convenience despite the sibling comment). Based on your data, the represents about the top percentile of police sergeant pay (not including benefits). Actually in the most recent available year only 1 out of 250 passes this threshold, with the median at around ~$85k. Unless this website is just a tool for police to hide how much they earn too? It's a good amount of money for a blue collar job, but I think you're overselling it, especially for HN.
- haroldp 5y ago
  Why wouldn't you include benefits? Do you consider benefits when accepting a job? Would cops accept only base pay as compensation? I am paying for these benefits, and they are not, like $50/mo into your 401k benefits. They are golden-parachute, retire young, benefits. They are part of total compensation, and it would be dishonest to talk about cop pay without including them. Almost every police sergeant makes over $100k in total compensation. At least 10% make more than $200k.
  - blix 5y ago
    Because I'm not convinced of the reliability of benfit-to-dollar conversions, especially given their history as a way to distract from falling real wages. I personally value real salary much higher than benefit equivalent. Maybe the police department is overpaying for dental insurance from an agency run by the chief's cousin's wife. You raise a valid point but it makes the analysis more complicated. Even given the way you run the numbers, however, I think you are still overestimating the hourly rate for the average cop. If you judge the wealth of the world by the top 10%, poverty has been eliminated.

heavyset_go 5y ago

There are a lot of places in the US where the chief of police is the highest paid employee on a municipality's payroll.