3 ms·

The much more common reality is the publisher doesn't release the rights back to the author when it goes out of print or after liquidations, mergers, and acquis

The much more common reality is the publisher doesn't release the rights back to the author when it goes out of print or after liquidations, mergers, and acquisitions the current owner of a work is often confusing, especially if they were auctioned in blocks say during a chapter 7 bankruptcy of a publisher. Many media conglomerates had short-lived book publishing arms 50 years ago. The current owners of the successor companies may not even be aware they have those rights in any meaningful sense. These subsequent transfers don't get registered. So the paper trail is hard. Additionally researchers are hampered when trying to track down old newspapers or out of print material. For instance, many daily newspapers shuttered their doors in the past 30 years. Currently you mostly have to go to the Library of Congress, find a local library or historical society with archival microfilm, drive over there and then scrub through the rolls on an analog machine like it's the 1970s. Murky copyright prevents these defunct publications from being digitized. I really wish the existence of Mickey Mouse wasn't the reason I have to wait until COVID is over because the archives room is closed at a specific library I'd like to go to and they don't have the rights to digitize what they have on file. I'd gladly pay for it but nobody knows who to pay. I've tried tracking down the current right holders and the only person I heard back from claims (I believe incorrectly) they do not have those rights. I'm guessing the lawyers saw the long chain of transfers I documented and were just trying to play it safe. So here I am. Splendid. I'm pretty sure in your example there's many other laws that protect you from that kind of brazen theft

munificent 5y ago
> I'm pretty sure in your example there's many other laws that protect you from that kind of brazen theft No, it is literally only copyright law. If it wasn't for the ambient threat of copyright litigation that I could bring to anyone else who attempted to sell my book, the day I put it on Amazon, someone else would take it, put their own copy up, and undercut the price. People like to complain loudly about IP law, and I agree there are definitely problems. But I think we massively take for granted all of the many cases where it does work well.
- kristopolous 5y ago
  Criminal impersonation, fraud, forgery, it's someone assuming your identity for financial gain. It's similar to selling a car you don't own or someone else's real estate property through title fraud. If IP disappeared tomorrow, I'd bet quite a bit of money that some skilled lawyers would quickly find a way to get the kind of protection you speak of to exist under other laws. I'd go so much as to say that if something can't be argued under existing laws of things like damage, theft, impersonation, forgery, abuse and fraud, then it probably would be the kind of rights exercise that I'd consider objectionable.
  - notJim 5y ago
    > Criminal impersonation, fraud, forgery, it's someone assuming your identity for financial gain. It's similar to selling a car you don't own or someone else's real estate property through title fraud. It doesn't not require fraud or forgery to sell someone else's book. You don't claim to be the author, you claim to be a publisher. Publishers always publish authors' work, that is literally the business of a publisher. You are also not forging anything, unless you are claiming that your version of the book is a specific edition of the printed work. If you sold an author's work and claimed that you have a contract with that author, so that they receive a share of the proceeds, and if that claim was untrue, then that would be fraud. But you could simply not make that claim. > It's similar to selling a car you don't own or someone else's real estate property through title fraud. The title represents the property right. If you didn't have the right to exclusive ownership of cars, then the title would be irrelevant, because you could just obtain the keys to the car and sell them to someone. Property rights are the reason this is illegal, not title fraud.
    - kristopolous 5y ago
      I'm not an attorney. If this has become a question of legal interpretation I'll have to excuse myself. I would be very surprised if IP law was the only possible legal wall in such a bad faith action as the one you're referring to but I'm completely unqualified to argue any actual legal nuance. Sorry. What I really want is easier access to historical primary source research material without having to drive an hour and spend all day combining through microfiche. It feels stupid having to still do that in the 2020s. These should have been fed through a digitizer 20 years ago, it'd take like a weekend. It's not hard. The IP boogeyman is the only thing holding this up. Heck, sometimes, say with various local LA city paper, there's often only 2 existent copies, one in Downey or Lapl central and one in Sacramento. When I get that role I literally have half the world's copies in my hand. I mean really, what the hell is that? Disk space is effectively free. Let's get on this. I wish you luck on your book

munificent 5y ago

> I'm pretty sure in your example there's many other laws that protect you from that kind of brazen theft No, it is literally only copyright law. If it wasn't for the ambient threat of copyright litigation that I could bring to anyone else who attempted to sell my book, the day I put it on Amazon, someone else would take it, put their own copy up, and undercut the price. People like to complain loudly about IP law, and I agree there are definitely problems. But I think we massively take for granted all of the many cases where it does work well.

kristopolous 5y ago
Criminal impersonation, fraud, forgery, it's someone assuming your identity for financial gain. It's similar to selling a car you don't own or someone else's real estate property through title fraud. If IP disappeared tomorrow, I'd bet quite a bit of money that some skilled lawyers would quickly find a way to get the kind of protection you speak of to exist under other laws. I'd go so much as to say that if something can't be argued under existing laws of things like damage, theft, impersonation, forgery, abuse and fraud, then it probably would be the kind of rights exercise that I'd consider objectionable.
- notJim 5y ago
  > Criminal impersonation, fraud, forgery, it's someone assuming your identity for financial gain. It's similar to selling a car you don't own or someone else's real estate property through title fraud. It doesn't not require fraud or forgery to sell someone else's book. You don't claim to be the author, you claim to be a publisher. Publishers always publish authors' work, that is literally the business of a publisher. You are also not forging anything, unless you are claiming that your version of the book is a specific edition of the printed work. If you sold an author's work and claimed that you have a contract with that author, so that they receive a share of the proceeds, and if that claim was untrue, then that would be fraud. But you could simply not make that claim. > It's similar to selling a car you don't own or someone else's real estate property through title fraud. The title represents the property right. If you didn't have the right to exclusive ownership of cars, then the title would be irrelevant, because you could just obtain the keys to the car and sell them to someone. Property rights are the reason this is illegal, not title fraud.
  - kristopolous 5y ago
    I'm not an attorney. If this has become a question of legal interpretation I'll have to excuse myself. I would be very surprised if IP law was the only possible legal wall in such a bad faith action as the one you're referring to but I'm completely unqualified to argue any actual legal nuance. Sorry. What I really want is easier access to historical primary source research material without having to drive an hour and spend all day combining through microfiche. It feels stupid having to still do that in the 2020s. These should have been fed through a digitizer 20 years ago, it'd take like a weekend. It's not hard. The IP boogeyman is the only thing holding this up. Heck, sometimes, say with various local LA city paper, there's often only 2 existent copies, one in Downey or Lapl central and one in Sacramento. When I get that role I literally have half the world's copies in my hand. I mean really, what the hell is that? Disk space is effectively free. Let's get on this. I wish you luck on your book