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People will hate this source, but this is the most info I’ve seen revealed about the actual conditions in the Wuhan lab(s): https://www.the-sun.com/news/317424

People will hate this source, but this is the most info I’ve seen revealed about the actual conditions in the Wuhan lab(s): https://www.the-sun.com/news/3174242/wuhan-labs-leak-covid-chaotic-crowded/ https://www.the-sun.com/news/3174242/wuhan-labs-leak-covid-c...

aplummer 5y ago
That's because the source regularly deliberately misinforms. So it's impossible to know if literally any of the claims here are completely made up. For example: _In December 2019, The Sun's political editor, Tom Newton Dunn, wrote an article for the paper titled "Hijacked Labour", alleging that "Jeremy Corbyn is at the centre of an extraordinary network of hard-left extremists pieced together by former British intelligence officers", a network ranging from Novara Media contributor Ash Sarkar to French philosopher Michel Foucault, who has been dead since 1984, that is alleged to be pulling Corbyn's strings.[204] It was later found that the ultimate sources for this claim included the antisemitic, far-right websites The Millennium Report and Aryan Unity._ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun_(United_Kingdom)#Far-right_conspiracy_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun_(United_Kingdom)#Far-r...
- nytyellow 5y ago
  Look up NYTimes and yellow cake. Oh wait that doesn't fit your narrative. Oh well. I'm sure you have some explanation for why one is better then the other and it's a totally valid non partisan, non bias, totally fair minded reason. hN is just full of highly propagandized group thinkers.
  - raphlinus 5y ago
    I'm not understanding the case you're making. The most notable action by the NYT on yellowcake (the main citation in the Wikipedia article) was publishing the op-ed by Joe Wilson indicating that the evidence that Iraq was trying to buy yellowcake was forged. To me, that story has considerable resonance with the lab leak theory, in both cases certain factions within US intelligence trying to push the theory hard, and releasing "evidence" through indirect sources that cannot readily be verified. In the lab leak case, a major part of that role was played by the Wall Street Journal, which published the account of 3 Wuhan lab workers hospitalized in November 2019[1]. The part of Joe Wilson basically being played by Christopher Ashley Ford, in a letter cited elsewhere in this thread. [1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-on-sick-staff-at-wuhan-lab-fuels-debate-on-covid-19-origin-11621796228 https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-on-sick-staff-at-w...
  - aplummer 5y ago
    This is whataboutism, as well as ad hominem. I accurately stated that a source was not a reliable one (it’s a British tabloid, my nan who survived the war knows this but I provided an example of evidence). > hN is just full of highly propagandized group thinkers. Rationalism and evidence.
- justshowpost 5y ago
  > From Wokepedia, the far-left encyclopedia No, thanks, anything right-wing is blatant bogeyman there. Also, is their label for things they don't like. Guess what is their very first most important paragraph on their depiction of right values? Yes, it is anti-communism XD
devwastaken 5y ago
The 60 page report that's listed halfway through isn't peer reviewed, and the main author only submits papers about the wuhan lab. It's also on researchgate, which is about the same as saying someone publishing a study on twitter.
yskchu 5y ago
If you want to know the actual conditions, there is a recent article from a much better source Bloomberg: The Last–And Only–Foreign Scientist in the Wuhan Lab Speaks Out She is an Australian virologist, now working in Melbourne’s Peter Doherty Institute for Infection and Immunity, previously scientific director of the biosafety lab at Singapore’s Duke-NUS Medical School in 2016. Archive link: https://archive.is/IFDZY https://archive.is/IFDZY
- runawaybottle 5y ago
  I read that and her volunteered info was all over news sites last week. However, this is not what we need. What we need is an independent body that goes into the Wuhan lab. Let us inspect the bats. The cages, the equipment, the staff.
  - simonh 5y ago
    It seems unlikely to me that a team going to the lab now would be able to tell us anything at all about how the lab was operated 18 months ago. The chances that it hasn't been completely gutted and re-worked from scratch by now seem to me to be precisely zero. The window of opportunity to get a team in there and actually find out what was going on closed probably in late January or early in February 2020. Meanwhile we have someone here with direct experience of the lab as it was at the actual time in question. It seems to me that's absolutely the best we are ever likely to get.

aplummer 5y ago

That's because the source regularly deliberately misinforms. So it's impossible to know if literally any of the claims here are completely made up. For example: _In December 2019, The Sun's political editor, Tom Newton Dunn, wrote an article for the paper titled "Hijacked Labour", alleging that "Jeremy Corbyn is at the centre of an extraordinary network of hard-left extremists pieced together by former British intelligence officers", a network ranging from Novara Media contributor Ash Sarkar to French philosopher Michel Foucault, who has been dead since 1984, that is alleged to be pulling Corbyn's strings.[204] It was later found that the ultimate sources for this claim included the antisemitic, far-right websites The Millennium Report and Aryan Unity._ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun_(United_Kingdom)#Far-right_conspiracy_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun_(United_Kingdom)#Far-r...

nytyellow 5y ago
Look up NYTimes and yellow cake. Oh wait that doesn't fit your narrative. Oh well. I'm sure you have some explanation for why one is better then the other and it's a totally valid non partisan, non bias, totally fair minded reason. hN is just full of highly propagandized group thinkers.
- raphlinus 5y ago
  I'm not understanding the case you're making. The most notable action by the NYT on yellowcake (the main citation in the Wikipedia article) was publishing the op-ed by Joe Wilson indicating that the evidence that Iraq was trying to buy yellowcake was forged. To me, that story has considerable resonance with the lab leak theory, in both cases certain factions within US intelligence trying to push the theory hard, and releasing "evidence" through indirect sources that cannot readily be verified. In the lab leak case, a major part of that role was played by the Wall Street Journal, which published the account of 3 Wuhan lab workers hospitalized in November 2019[1]. The part of Joe Wilson basically being played by Christopher Ashley Ford, in a letter cited elsewhere in this thread. [1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-on-sick-staff-at-wuhan-lab-fuels-debate-on-covid-19-origin-11621796228 https://www.wsj.com/articles/intelligence-on-sick-staff-at-w...
- aplummer 5y ago
  This is whataboutism, as well as ad hominem. I accurately stated that a source was not a reliable one (it’s a British tabloid, my nan who survived the war knows this but I provided an example of evidence). > hN is just full of highly propagandized group thinkers. Rationalism and evidence.
justshowpost 5y ago
> From Wokepedia, the far-left encyclopedia No, thanks, anything right-wing is blatant bogeyman there. Also, is their label for things they don't like. Guess what is their very first most important paragraph on their depiction of right values? Yes, it is anti-communism XD

devwastaken 5y ago

The 60 page report that's listed halfway through isn't peer reviewed, and the main author only submits papers about the wuhan lab. It's also on researchgate, which is about the same as saying someone publishing a study on twitter.

yskchu 5y ago

If you want to know the actual conditions, there is a recent article from a much better source Bloomberg: The Last–And Only–Foreign Scientist in the Wuhan Lab Speaks Out She is an Australian virologist, now working in Melbourne’s Peter Doherty Institute for Infection and Immunity, previously scientific director of the biosafety lab at Singapore’s Duke-NUS Medical School in 2016. Archive link: https://archive.is/IFDZY https://archive.is/IFDZY

runawaybottle 5y ago
I read that and her volunteered info was all over news sites last week. However, this is not what we need. What we need is an independent body that goes into the Wuhan lab. Let us inspect the bats. The cages, the equipment, the staff.
- simonh 5y ago
  It seems unlikely to me that a team going to the lab now would be able to tell us anything at all about how the lab was operated 18 months ago. The chances that it hasn't been completely gutted and re-worked from scratch by now seem to me to be precisely zero. The window of opportunity to get a team in there and actually find out what was going on closed probably in late January or early in February 2020. Meanwhile we have someone here with direct experience of the lab as it was at the actual time in question. It seems to me that's absolutely the best we are ever likely to get.