4 ms·

> This is why the country is so divided. Bad faith false equivalencies like yours? Couldn't agree more! Protestors disrupted Kavanaugh's hearing, they didn't

> This is why the country is so divided. Bad faith false equivalencies like yours? Couldn't agree more! Protestors disrupted Kavanaugh's hearing, they didn't try to overturn his confirmation after the fact. And even had they attempted to (not even sure what this looks like since GOP controlled the presidency and the Senate), that is far cry from attempting to overthrow the democratically-elected leader of our country with tacit and explicit support from government officials, weapons, and much malicious intent. And comparing Jan. 6 to CHAZ is honestly a total joke not even worth acknowledging further.

iammisc 5y ago
I guess, I don't really get it. I'm happy to denounce Jan 6 as terrible. I just don't understand the hyperbole, and because I don't denounce it enough that's seen as many as bad faith. On the other hand, God forbid you express concerns over the summer of violence we saw in 2020, because then you're just exagerating. I am frankly exasperated at continuously having to keep track of not only what I ought to feel but also what level of passion I need to express my thoughts with in order to be taken in good faith. I am willing to take it in good faith that you honestly believe Jan 6 is basically the worst thing to happen since the civil war. I don't really get how you can say that, but I don't think you're being disingenuous, or even malicious, in your statement of equivalence. Unfortunately, since I don't see it the same way and don't feel Jan 6 is as bad as you make it out to be, I am apparently not only misguided or hyperbolic (what I believe you are) but -- as you've claimed -- a government abolitionist who lacks integrity.
- HelloMcFly 5y ago
  Let me be specific: when you drew an equivalence of severity between the events of Jan. 6 and A) the CHAZ and B) protests for Kavanaugh's confirmation, you made it very hard for me to believe that you're operating in good faith. You don't need to be in the streets protesting for shit, I don't need you calling your reps to ask them to support an independent commission. But I do need it to not be compared to situations that are not laughably benign by comparison. > I am willing to take it in good faith that you honestly believe Jan 6 is basically the worst thing to happen since the civil war. I didn't say that and I don't believe it. I reread my words, I don't feel I communicated such a sweeping conclusion / assessment. > I am apparently... a government abolitionist who lacks integrity. I attacked your argument, you've made it an attack on you. I don't know you, but that comparison was whack, be it bad faith, naivety, or ignorance. In my opinion, of course, however misguided, hyperbolic, or otherwise.
  - textgel 5y ago
    And when you dismiss it with accusations of bad faith and 'refute' the argument by primarily throwing derisive adjectives at it, that leads me to strongly believe you are operating in bad faith and making the accusation to pre-counter the obvious conclusions that can be drawn from the way you are conducting yourself. You are primarily trying to refute the the argument by throwing as many derisive marks as possible at it, a joke, whack, naivety etc etc and demanding it not even be considered. From intention there was plenty in the Chax situation that you really don't want to have your name associated with. From results, same story.
    - HelloMcFly 5y ago
      > You are primarily trying to refute the the argument by throwing as many derisive marks as possible at it, a joke, whack, naivety etc etc and demanding it not even be considered. I was specific about what I found to be bad faith: drawing a false equivalency between Jan. 6 - an attack on our system of governance as a whole, supported by politicians - to those other examples. Yes, I used derisive adjectives, because I find the comparison worthy of derision. > From intention there was plenty in the Chax situation that you really don't want to have your name associated with. You won't find me defending CHAZ, like you seem to assume I will. Their intentions were far more benign than Jan. 6, but not benign or harmless, nor should many of the individuals involved be considered blameless. But there was certainly less intent to harm in CHAZ, and absolutely less intent to challenge our system of governance. I used testy words, but they didn't detract from the point I felt it quite clear: minimizing the significance of Jan. 6 through equivocating it with CHAZ or Kavanaugh protests is an argument made in bad faith, naivety, or ignorance.
      - textgel 5y ago
        No you don't get to brush off actual armed establishment of an autonomous zone with "benign intention". That is the equivalent of mass-hostage taking and the beginnings of a coup; exactly as "benign" in intention as the 6th. > You won't find me defending CHAZ, like you seem to assume I will. This is exactly what you're doing here, you saw the claim and came running. You're just having to back-peddle now that someone is calling you on what you're doing. Also, it's funny how intention is the only thing you are grabbing hold of and bringing up. Is that because of literally everything else about the CHAZ situation and the riots and the destruction of property that surrounded it are completely indefensible and infinitely worse? Is the only reason "Intention" even becomes something you care about because it's the one thing you could try and twist into X is worse than Y?

iammisc 5y ago

I guess, I don't really get it. I'm happy to denounce Jan 6 as terrible. I just don't understand the hyperbole, and because I don't denounce it enough that's seen as many as bad faith. On the other hand, God forbid you express concerns over the summer of violence we saw in 2020, because then you're just exagerating. I am frankly exasperated at continuously having to keep track of not only what I ought to feel but also what level of passion I need to express my thoughts with in order to be taken in good faith. I am willing to take it in good faith that you honestly believe Jan 6 is basically the worst thing to happen since the civil war. I don't really get how you can say that, but I don't think you're being disingenuous, or even malicious, in your statement of equivalence. Unfortunately, since I don't see it the same way and don't feel Jan 6 is as bad as you make it out to be, I am apparently not only misguided or hyperbolic (what I believe you are) but -- as you've claimed -- a government abolitionist who lacks integrity.

HelloMcFly 5y ago
Let me be specific: when you drew an equivalence of severity between the events of Jan. 6 and A) the CHAZ and B) protests for Kavanaugh's confirmation, you made it very hard for me to believe that you're operating in good faith. You don't need to be in the streets protesting for shit, I don't need you calling your reps to ask them to support an independent commission. But I do need it to not be compared to situations that are not laughably benign by comparison. > I am willing to take it in good faith that you honestly believe Jan 6 is basically the worst thing to happen since the civil war. I didn't say that and I don't believe it. I reread my words, I don't feel I communicated such a sweeping conclusion / assessment. > I am apparently... a government abolitionist who lacks integrity. I attacked your argument, you've made it an attack on you. I don't know you, but that comparison was whack, be it bad faith, naivety, or ignorance. In my opinion, of course, however misguided, hyperbolic, or otherwise.
- textgel 5y ago
  And when you dismiss it with accusations of bad faith and 'refute' the argument by primarily throwing derisive adjectives at it, that leads me to strongly believe you are operating in bad faith and making the accusation to pre-counter the obvious conclusions that can be drawn from the way you are conducting yourself. You are primarily trying to refute the the argument by throwing as many derisive marks as possible at it, a joke, whack, naivety etc etc and demanding it not even be considered. From intention there was plenty in the Chax situation that you really don't want to have your name associated with. From results, same story.
  - HelloMcFly 5y ago
    > You are primarily trying to refute the the argument by throwing as many derisive marks as possible at it, a joke, whack, naivety etc etc and demanding it not even be considered. I was specific about what I found to be bad faith: drawing a false equivalency between Jan. 6 - an attack on our system of governance as a whole, supported by politicians - to those other examples. Yes, I used derisive adjectives, because I find the comparison worthy of derision. > From intention there was plenty in the Chax situation that you really don't want to have your name associated with. You won't find me defending CHAZ, like you seem to assume I will. Their intentions were far more benign than Jan. 6, but not benign or harmless, nor should many of the individuals involved be considered blameless. But there was certainly less intent to harm in CHAZ, and absolutely less intent to challenge our system of governance. I used testy words, but they didn't detract from the point I felt it quite clear: minimizing the significance of Jan. 6 through equivocating it with CHAZ or Kavanaugh protests is an argument made in bad faith, naivety, or ignorance.
    - textgel 5y ago
      No you don't get to brush off actual armed establishment of an autonomous zone with "benign intention". That is the equivalent of mass-hostage taking and the beginnings of a coup; exactly as "benign" in intention as the 6th. > You won't find me defending CHAZ, like you seem to assume I will. This is exactly what you're doing here, you saw the claim and came running. You're just having to back-peddle now that someone is calling you on what you're doing. Also, it's funny how intention is the only thing you are grabbing hold of and bringing up. Is that because of literally everything else about the CHAZ situation and the riots and the destruction of property that surrounded it are completely indefensible and infinitely worse? Is the only reason "Intention" even becomes something you care about because it's the one thing you could try and twist into X is worse than Y?