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> I've come to think of governments/countries as just a very, very extensive, giant home owners association that happens to float its own currency, fund its own

> I've come to think of governments/countries as just a very, very extensive, giant home owners association that happens to float its own currency, fund its own schools, etc. I'm always nervous about this type of reductive thinking. It tends to go wrong for the same reasons that "the government's checkbook should be managed like a household budget!" goes wrong. Your HOA doesn't control the financial systems of every other HOA in the world and can't freeze the assets of HOAistan because their premier is causing problems. Your HOA doesn't spend nearly half of its funds on a military that has first nuclear strike capability against the D.P.R.H(OA). Etc. Probably the biggest gap in this thinking: if you don't like your HOA, you can sell your house. In this market there's no lack of buyers and you have tons of options – other HOAs, unencumbered properties, etc. This sucks, sure, but compare it to emigrating to a country that you'd like to live in. It's miles apart.

somethoughts 5y ago
Agree and perhaps a better way to frame it would be, countries mostly start out as HOAs and then experience a ton of expansion and scope creep in their charter over the 5-10 centuries of their existence. > Probably the biggest gap in this thinking: if you don't like your HOA, you can sell your house. In this market there's no lack of buyers and you have tons of options – other HOAs, unencumbered properties, etc. This sucks, sure, but compare it to emigrating to a country that you'd like to live in. It's miles apart. I'd say this is just endgame monopolization in the market for HOAs. There used to be 100's of independent HOAs in the US in 1700's, they then consolidated to 13 colonies and then 200 years of further consolidation and voila - the country known as the United States.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > countries mostly start out as HOAs and then experience a ton of expansion and scope creep in their charter over the 5-10 centuries of their existence. [citation needed] > There used to be 100's of independent HOAs in the US in 1700's, they then consolidated to 13 colonies and then 200 years of further consolidation and voila - the country known as the United States. That’s...not accurate even as a very loose analogy.
  - somethoughts 5y ago
    Its interesting - we sometimes think of HOAs as being overly restrictive but if you read the charters for the original colonial settlements in the US, their HOA charters governed every aspect of life for the residents. These companies, such as the Virginia Company, were very much private, for profit, development companies. "In addition to survival, the early colonists had another pressing mission: to make a profit for the stockholders of the Virginia Company... The Company plastered street corners with tempting broadsheets, published persuasive articles, and even convinced the clergy to preach of the virtues of supporting colonization. Before the Company was dissolved, it would publish 27 books and pamphlets promoting the Virginia venture. To make shares more marketable, the Virginia Company changed its sales pitch. Instead of promising instant returns and vast profits for investors, the Company exploited patriotic sentiment and national pride." https://www.nps.gov/jame/learn/historyculture/the-virginia-company-of-london.htm https://www.nps.gov/jame/learn/historyculture/the-virginia-c... "John White continued to seek funding for a colony. On 19 March 1627/8, the Council for New England issued a land grant to a new group of investors that included a few from the Dorchester Company. The land grant was for territory between the Charles River and Merrimack River that extended from "the Atlantick and westerne sea and ocean on the east parte, to the South sea on the west parte."[21] The company to whom the grant was sold was styled "The New England Company for a Plantation in Massachusetts Bay".[22] The company elected Matthew Cradock as its first governor and immediately began organizing provisions and recruiting settlers." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Bay_Colony#Legal_formation_of_the_colony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Bay_Colony#Legal... On the flip side, there are active proposals in Nevada for community associations that self-govern - replete with police, fire, school system and their own digital currency: "For this to happen, Mr Berns says a new model of local government is needed in Nevada. This government would have powers to raise taxes, enforce the law, and administer public services such as schools, utilities and transport." Nevada smart city: A millionaire’s plan to create a local government: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56409924 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56409924
  - somethoughts 5y ago
    Excerpts from "Cities and Homeowner Associations" by Yale Professor Robert C. Ellickson "A third candidate for the exercise of decentralized power: the private homeowners association. The association, not the busi- ness corporation, is the obvious private alternative to the city. Like a city, an association enables households that have clustered their activities in a territorially defined area to enforce rules of conduct, to provide "public goods" (such as open space), and to pursue other common goals they could not achieve without some form of potentially coercive central authority. Although they were relatively exotic as recently as twenty years ago, homeowners associations now outnumber cities. Developers create thousands of new associations each year to govern their subdivisions, condominiums, and planned communities. I discern only one important difference between the two forms of organization-the sometimes involuntary nature of membership in a city versus the perfectly voluntary nature of membership in a homeowners association." https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1466&context=fss_papers https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?arti...

somethoughts 5y ago

Agree and perhaps a better way to frame it would be, countries mostly start out as HOAs and then experience a ton of expansion and scope creep in their charter over the 5-10 centuries of their existence. > Probably the biggest gap in this thinking: if you don't like your HOA, you can sell your house. In this market there's no lack of buyers and you have tons of options – other HOAs, unencumbered properties, etc. This sucks, sure, but compare it to emigrating to a country that you'd like to live in. It's miles apart. I'd say this is just endgame monopolization in the market for HOAs. There used to be 100's of independent HOAs in the US in 1700's, they then consolidated to 13 colonies and then 200 years of further consolidation and voila - the country known as the United States.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> countries mostly start out as HOAs and then experience a ton of expansion and scope creep in their charter over the 5-10 centuries of their existence. [citation needed] > There used to be 100's of independent HOAs in the US in 1700's, they then consolidated to 13 colonies and then 200 years of further consolidation and voila - the country known as the United States. That’s...not accurate even as a very loose analogy.
- somethoughts 5y ago
  Its interesting - we sometimes think of HOAs as being overly restrictive but if you read the charters for the original colonial settlements in the US, their HOA charters governed every aspect of life for the residents. These companies, such as the Virginia Company, were very much private, for profit, development companies. "In addition to survival, the early colonists had another pressing mission: to make a profit for the stockholders of the Virginia Company... The Company plastered street corners with tempting broadsheets, published persuasive articles, and even convinced the clergy to preach of the virtues of supporting colonization. Before the Company was dissolved, it would publish 27 books and pamphlets promoting the Virginia venture. To make shares more marketable, the Virginia Company changed its sales pitch. Instead of promising instant returns and vast profits for investors, the Company exploited patriotic sentiment and national pride." https://www.nps.gov/jame/learn/historyculture/the-virginia-company-of-london.htm https://www.nps.gov/jame/learn/historyculture/the-virginia-c... "John White continued to seek funding for a colony. On 19 March 1627/8, the Council for New England issued a land grant to a new group of investors that included a few from the Dorchester Company. The land grant was for territory between the Charles River and Merrimack River that extended from "the Atlantick and westerne sea and ocean on the east parte, to the South sea on the west parte."[21] The company to whom the grant was sold was styled "The New England Company for a Plantation in Massachusetts Bay".[22] The company elected Matthew Cradock as its first governor and immediately began organizing provisions and recruiting settlers." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Bay_Colony#Legal_formation_of_the_colony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Bay_Colony#Legal... On the flip side, there are active proposals in Nevada for community associations that self-govern - replete with police, fire, school system and their own digital currency: "For this to happen, Mr Berns says a new model of local government is needed in Nevada. This government would have powers to raise taxes, enforce the law, and administer public services such as schools, utilities and transport." Nevada smart city: A millionaire’s plan to create a local government: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56409924 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56409924
- somethoughts 5y ago
  Excerpts from "Cities and Homeowner Associations" by Yale Professor Robert C. Ellickson "A third candidate for the exercise of decentralized power: the private homeowners association. The association, not the busi- ness corporation, is the obvious private alternative to the city. Like a city, an association enables households that have clustered their activities in a territorially defined area to enforce rules of conduct, to provide "public goods" (such as open space), and to pursue other common goals they could not achieve without some form of potentially coercive central authority. Although they were relatively exotic as recently as twenty years ago, homeowners associations now outnumber cities. Developers create thousands of new associations each year to govern their subdivisions, condominiums, and planned communities. I discern only one important difference between the two forms of organization-the sometimes involuntary nature of membership in a city versus the perfectly voluntary nature of membership in a homeowners association." https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1466&context=fss_papers https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?arti...