3 ms·

We know that the disease itself has long term effects and they are showing up. We don't have any evidence yet that there are any long-term side effects to any o

by th0ma5 5y ago

We know that the disease itself has long term effects and they are showing up. We don't have any evidence yet that there are any long-term side effects to any of the vaccines. There have been some that of course have had heart problems or death, but those are rare, and are heavily outweighed by the benefits of the vaccine. I guess I hear your point that we should defer to knowledge as it is gained, and that's a good point for sure.

gfodor 5y ago
The issue becomes clearly in focus if you consider the question of what to do about children. They do not have the same risks of COVID, nor its long term effects, in its current form. If they did, we'd be in a much deeper crisis and (valid) panic about COVID than we already are. Under those assumptions, and the ones I've stated, it becomes clear at the very least this is a difficult question. This doesn't mean we can't form good priors, but it does mean that anyone discounting that process by claiming it is self-evident beyond a reasonable doubt is the kind of behavior we should push back against given it will ultimately cause more problems than it solves.
- th0ma5 5y ago
  I haven't heard that children are any less susceptible to long-term effects of covid-19. In fact I've mostly heard the opposite that they are just as at risk of long-term side effects of the disease as anyone else.
  - gfodor 5y ago
    I would be curious in any good research on this subject since it may affect my own decision making. Note: not dumb articles like the one this post is about but published papers.
    - th0ma5 5y ago
      Yes yes the /r/COVID19 catalogs preprint articles as they appear with some discussion, and while that isn't of course peer-reviewed it's still something to monitor.
      - gfodor 5y ago
        OK so it sounds like what I asked for doesn't exist. Sorry, but "I heard" doesn't count for me, since it conflicts with other things I have "heard", being networked with physicians.
        th0ma5 5y ago
        You said you're looking for papers? I mean I mentioned that subreddit is the source of What I'm talking about, What is this paper that you speak of?
        gfodor 5y ago
        I am asking for links to published (not preprint) papers supporting what you said. I’m open to it.
        Isinlor 5y ago
        Peer-review doesn't mean much. You will have best luck following centralized authorities. Here is finding from one study that was peer-reviewed and got published in a journal "Vaccines" (impact factor: 4.4): https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm > For three deaths prevented by vaccination we have to accept two inflicted by vaccination. Conclusions: This lack of clear benefit should cause governments to rethink their vaccination policy. The study is now retracted, but for one such outrageously wrong study there are probably 10 more that do not receive so much scrutiny. There is nothing that can be done if you do not trust authorities, besides spending time on getting into the weeds. But if you trust authorities, then according to American CDC: > CDC recommends everyone 12 years and older should get a COVID-19 vaccination to help protect against COVID-19. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/adolescents.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommend... And according to WHO: > Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults, so unless they are part of a group at higher risk of severe COVID-19, it is less urgent to vaccinate them than older people, those with chronic health conditions and health workers. > More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19. > WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) has concluded that the Pfizer/BionTech vaccine is suitable for use by people aged 12 years and above. Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination. Vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations when the evidence or epidemiological situation warrants a change in policy. > It's important for children to continue to have the recommended childhood vaccines. https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-vaccines/advice https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2...

by th0ma5 5y ago

gfodor 5y ago

The issue becomes clearly in focus if you consider the question of what to do about children. They do not have the same risks of COVID, nor its long term effects, in its current form. If they did, we'd be in a much deeper crisis and (valid) panic about COVID than we already are. Under those assumptions, and the ones I've stated, it becomes clear at the very least this is a difficult question. This doesn't mean we can't form good priors, but it does mean that anyone discounting that process by claiming it is self-evident beyond a reasonable doubt is the kind of behavior we should push back against given it will ultimately cause more problems than it solves.

th0ma5 5y ago
I haven't heard that children are any less susceptible to long-term effects of covid-19. In fact I've mostly heard the opposite that they are just as at risk of long-term side effects of the disease as anyone else.
- gfodor 5y ago
  I would be curious in any good research on this subject since it may affect my own decision making. Note: not dumb articles like the one this post is about but published papers.
  - th0ma5 5y ago
    Yes yes the /r/COVID19 catalogs preprint articles as they appear with some discussion, and while that isn't of course peer-reviewed it's still something to monitor.
    - gfodor 5y ago
      OK so it sounds like what I asked for doesn't exist. Sorry, but "I heard" doesn't count for me, since it conflicts with other things I have "heard", being networked with physicians.
      - th0ma5 5y ago
        You said you're looking for papers? I mean I mentioned that subreddit is the source of What I'm talking about, What is this paper that you speak of?
        gfodor 5y ago
        I am asking for links to published (not preprint) papers supporting what you said. I’m open to it.
        Isinlor 5y ago
        Peer-review doesn't mean much. You will have best luck following centralized authorities. Here is finding from one study that was peer-reviewed and got published in a journal "Vaccines" (impact factor: 4.4): https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/9/7/693/htm > For three deaths prevented by vaccination we have to accept two inflicted by vaccination. Conclusions: This lack of clear benefit should cause governments to rethink their vaccination policy. The study is now retracted, but for one such outrageously wrong study there are probably 10 more that do not receive so much scrutiny. There is nothing that can be done if you do not trust authorities, besides spending time on getting into the weeds. But if you trust authorities, then according to American CDC: > CDC recommends everyone 12 years and older should get a COVID-19 vaccination to help protect against COVID-19. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/adolescents.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommend... And according to WHO: > Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults, so unless they are part of a group at higher risk of severe COVID-19, it is less urgent to vaccinate them than older people, those with chronic health conditions and health workers. > More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19. > WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) has concluded that the Pfizer/BionTech vaccine is suitable for use by people aged 12 years and above. Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination. Vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations when the evidence or epidemiological situation warrants a change in policy. > It's important for children to continue to have the recommended childhood vaccines. https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-vaccines/advice https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2...