5 ms·

I find it really hard to believe that US citizens are allowing this abuse and many even defend it. Markets may even be workable if the patient actually had nece

I find it really hard to believe that US citizens are allowing this abuse and many even defend it. Markets may even be workable if the patient actually had necessary information and hospitals, insurers and multiple middlemen couldn’t design these elaborate bureaucracies that are optimized to confuse people while extracting maximum money. I can’t imagine any other industry getting away with this. I wish the Democrats had had any courage to go for Medicare for all. It’s an established system that could be tweaked to expand coverage. Instead Biden will make some half assed moves which will immediately be obstructed by the republicans. And so this travesty will keep going for many years more. And it seems there is no hope for change.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
>I find it really hard to believe that US citizens are allowing this abuse and many even defend it. Because US citizens know that increasing the amount of healthcare provided will increase taxes. This whole game is being played because we want to have our cake and eat it too, with many in the middle and upper deciles betting that they will be better off without a universal healthcare type system. >I wish the Democrats had had any courage to go for Medicare for all. We are lucky the Democrats are even trying, and that ACA even got passed, with the compromises that had to be made. They simply do not have the numbers in Congress (and will not based on population trends) to do any more.
- 8ytecoder 5y ago
  There-in lies the problem. You overestimate the tax increase and underestimate what you end up paying if you ever get sick. And yes, the bigger issue is reducing hospital bills. Again, look at the line items and you'll see a big large number next to admin costs of processing insurance. Add the cost of profit for the insurance company and their cost of running the business and you know where this is going.
- chris_wot 5y ago
  Then they know wrongly. There are plenty of countries who already have health care systems much better than the U.S. with similar levels of taxation.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Everyone in the healthcare chain in those countries earns less than in the US. The US is going down that road, but it will not be a quick and smooth.
    - chris_wot 5y ago
      What evidence do you have to support this?
- dntrkv 5y ago
  For me, personally, I don't mind the increase in taxes but I do mind putting more money into a broken system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea... We spend more than 2x per capita than most other countries, and we don't even provide care for everyone. Infrastructure and schools face similar issues in the US. I don't know what the answer is, but dumping more money into these systems will only make them more inefficient.
  - spaetzleesser 5y ago
    "I do mind putting more money into a broken system." That's the problem with Obamacare. It just pumped more money into a corrupt system. The result is that premiums are going up like crazy. For the same reason I am against cancellation of student debt. If we don't stop the increases in tuition we are just shoveling money to corrupt institutions.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Premiums went up because more people started getting more healthcare. ACA is explicitly a wealth transfer from the young to the old and from the healthy to the sick. The young to the old because the highest premium for 64 year olds is capped at 3x the premium of 21 to 24 year olds. The healthy to the sick because insurance companies can only charge people based on age, location, and smoking status, and cannot refuse anyone for any reason. On top of that, healthcare cost increases slowed down after ACA. So ACA is working similar to universal taxpayer funded healthcare (which would require tax increases). It is not perfect, and it is quite likely there was a better alternative, but there were a lot of compromises that had to be made to even get ACA. There is only one party fighting to get people healthcare, and they do not have the power on Congress anymore. And likely never will again to be able to do things with it having to heavily compromise.
inetknght 5y ago
> I find it really hard to believe that US citizens are allowing this abuse and many even defend it. Your average US citizen has no choice in the matter.

lotsofpulp 5y ago

>I find it really hard to believe that US citizens are allowing this abuse and many even defend it. Because US citizens know that increasing the amount of healthcare provided will increase taxes. This whole game is being played because we want to have our cake and eat it too, with many in the middle and upper deciles betting that they will be better off without a universal healthcare type system. >I wish the Democrats had had any courage to go for Medicare for all. We are lucky the Democrats are even trying, and that ACA even got passed, with the compromises that had to be made. They simply do not have the numbers in Congress (and will not based on population trends) to do any more.

8ytecoder 5y ago
There-in lies the problem. You overestimate the tax increase and underestimate what you end up paying if you ever get sick. And yes, the bigger issue is reducing hospital bills. Again, look at the line items and you'll see a big large number next to admin costs of processing insurance. Add the cost of profit for the insurance company and their cost of running the business and you know where this is going.
chris_wot 5y ago
Then they know wrongly. There are plenty of countries who already have health care systems much better than the U.S. with similar levels of taxation.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Everyone in the healthcare chain in those countries earns less than in the US. The US is going down that road, but it will not be a quick and smooth.
  - chris_wot 5y ago
    What evidence do you have to support this?
dntrkv 5y ago
For me, personally, I don't mind the increase in taxes but I do mind putting more money into a broken system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea... We spend more than 2x per capita than most other countries, and we don't even provide care for everyone. Infrastructure and schools face similar issues in the US. I don't know what the answer is, but dumping more money into these systems will only make them more inefficient.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  "I do mind putting more money into a broken system." That's the problem with Obamacare. It just pumped more money into a corrupt system. The result is that premiums are going up like crazy. For the same reason I am against cancellation of student debt. If we don't stop the increases in tuition we are just shoveling money to corrupt institutions.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Premiums went up because more people started getting more healthcare. ACA is explicitly a wealth transfer from the young to the old and from the healthy to the sick. The young to the old because the highest premium for 64 year olds is capped at 3x the premium of 21 to 24 year olds. The healthy to the sick because insurance companies can only charge people based on age, location, and smoking status, and cannot refuse anyone for any reason. On top of that, healthcare cost increases slowed down after ACA. So ACA is working similar to universal taxpayer funded healthcare (which would require tax increases). It is not perfect, and it is quite likely there was a better alternative, but there were a lot of compromises that had to be made to even get ACA. There is only one party fighting to get people healthcare, and they do not have the power on Congress anymore. And likely never will again to be able to do things with it having to heavily compromise.

inetknght 5y ago

> I find it really hard to believe that US citizens are allowing this abuse and many even defend it. Your average US citizen has no choice in the matter.