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I would be extremely reluctant to own a condo because condo boards revert to the mean person's attitude to solving problems of putting it off until it is starin

I would be extremely reluctant to own a condo because condo boards revert to the mean person's attitude to solving problems of putting it off until it is staring them in the face. Grandparents owned one where the board deferred thousands in repairs until it became hundreds of thousands.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
There is an easy fix. Condo finances should be public record, and when repairs are needed, the local code/planning/inspector office reviews with the condo board, approves if necessary, and then puts encumbrances on the units in the complex. Those who can afford the cost pay right away, those who can’t have essentially borrowed against their equity to finance their share of the repairs, with the loans paid back with interest when the property is sold. Transparency is one part, but also independent oversight and enforcement of the work necessary.
- moralestapia 5y ago
  This is the right answer. Some repairs should be mandatory, if the owner can't pay it should be treated as any other debt. If the owner can't afford repairs, it should sell the unit, otherwise the damages are greater for all other owners.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - briefcomment 5y ago
    I guess there's the potential problem of the inspector suggesting repairs for the sake of business. Mandatory repairs would likely be gamed unless there are robust checks and balances.
    - klodolph 5y ago
      How much of a problem is this? In most places, there are laws regarding the conflict of interest for building inspectors. For example, building inspectors may not be allowed to be involved in the any building business at all, with some exceptions carved out for making modifications to their own home.
- klodolph 5y ago
  Could you elaborate on how this is different from the current system? With the current system, the condo board decides that repairs are needed, assesses fees, and makes the repairs. The fees are either paid immediately by the condo owners, or the HOA puts a lien on the condo. Local laws require larger buildings to be inspected on some scehdule... in New York I think there's a type of inspection (FSPM: fire safety and property maintenance) that is required every three years, for all multi-tenant residential buildings. From what I can tell, the big problem is that the condo board is just made up of people who own the condos, and the bylaws of individual HOAs require certain actions by the condo board to be approved by the owners. The other problem is that Florida has weaker laws for condos than other states.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    If the condo board doesn’t have the will or the unit owner votes to approve the work, it won’t be done.
    - klodolph 5y ago
      Wouldn't it be more straightforward to tighten the building codes? The condo board is already required to perform repairs to keep the building up to code.
      - toomuchtodo 5y ago
        > The condo board is already required to perform repairs to keep the building up to code. A collapsed condo building disagrees.
        klodolph 5y ago
        > A collapsed condo building disagrees. That's a really cutesy way of putting it. My take on this is that the building codes in Florida are perhaps too lax, although I'm not an expert on building codes. From the reports I've been reading, the relevant inspections were to be done on a 40-year interval, and the building lasted less than 40 years (so its first inspection, in service, was never conducted). This, to me, indicates that if the building was ever up to code, the code was too lax. If the maintenance was done to code, then the code was too lax.
908B64B197 5y ago
Not only that, but with international buyers, they might only be interested in holding the asset for resale. And the contractor building the place knows it...
glasss 5y ago
I imagine the phenomenon is due to multiple people being responsible but no singular person being accountable. There is probably a board director / president that SHOULD be accountable, but it's easy for them to either consciously or subconsciously blame the rest of their board for inaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_assignment_matrix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_assignment_matr...
- abeppu 5y ago
  Well, and: - Long term problems can outlast the tenure of any board member. - Board members are volunteering. What sort of "accountability" is appropriate? Can you pin millions in liability on whichever unit owner threw their hat into an election in the year preceding some terrible outcome? Why would anyone be a board member then?
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    See underfunded retirement benefits for government employees and unmaintained infrastructure. Even setting aside the issue of incentives in the short term versus long term, by the time leaders and voters will be gone, the voters are usually not willing to pay higher taxes or condo fees, nor are they even in a position to properly evaluate and prioritize problems.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  To be accountable, a person needs to be in charge. Board president is often just one vote of many.
OnionBlender 5y ago
I rent but it feels like I'm just throwing away money every month compared to owning a condo. I used to own a condo but sold it years ago and moved to the U.S. for work. Selling it was idiotic in retrospect considering how much the value would have increased these past few years.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

There is an easy fix. Condo finances should be public record, and when repairs are needed, the local code/planning/inspector office reviews with the condo board, approves if necessary, and then puts encumbrances on the units in the complex. Those who can afford the cost pay right away, those who can’t have essentially borrowed against their equity to finance their share of the repairs, with the loans paid back with interest when the property is sold. Transparency is one part, but also independent oversight and enforcement of the work necessary.

moralestapia 5y ago
This is the right answer. Some repairs should be mandatory, if the owner can't pay it should be treated as any other debt. If the owner can't afford repairs, it should sell the unit, otherwise the damages are greater for all other owners.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- briefcomment 5y ago
  I guess there's the potential problem of the inspector suggesting repairs for the sake of business. Mandatory repairs would likely be gamed unless there are robust checks and balances.
  - klodolph 5y ago
    How much of a problem is this? In most places, there are laws regarding the conflict of interest for building inspectors. For example, building inspectors may not be allowed to be involved in the any building business at all, with some exceptions carved out for making modifications to their own home.
klodolph 5y ago
Could you elaborate on how this is different from the current system? With the current system, the condo board decides that repairs are needed, assesses fees, and makes the repairs. The fees are either paid immediately by the condo owners, or the HOA puts a lien on the condo. Local laws require larger buildings to be inspected on some scehdule... in New York I think there's a type of inspection (FSPM: fire safety and property maintenance) that is required every three years, for all multi-tenant residential buildings. From what I can tell, the big problem is that the condo board is just made up of people who own the condos, and the bylaws of individual HOAs require certain actions by the condo board to be approved by the owners. The other problem is that Florida has weaker laws for condos than other states.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  If the condo board doesn’t have the will or the unit owner votes to approve the work, it won’t be done.
  - klodolph 5y ago
    Wouldn't it be more straightforward to tighten the building codes? The condo board is already required to perform repairs to keep the building up to code.
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      > The condo board is already required to perform repairs to keep the building up to code. A collapsed condo building disagrees.
      - klodolph 5y ago
        > A collapsed condo building disagrees. That's a really cutesy way of putting it. My take on this is that the building codes in Florida are perhaps too lax, although I'm not an expert on building codes. From the reports I've been reading, the relevant inspections were to be done on a 40-year interval, and the building lasted less than 40 years (so its first inspection, in service, was never conducted). This, to me, indicates that if the building was ever up to code, the code was too lax. If the maintenance was done to code, then the code was too lax.

908B64B197 5y ago

Not only that, but with international buyers, they might only be interested in holding the asset for resale. And the contractor building the place knows it...

glasss 5y ago

I imagine the phenomenon is due to multiple people being responsible but no singular person being accountable. There is probably a board director / president that SHOULD be accountable, but it's easy for them to either consciously or subconsciously blame the rest of their board for inaction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_assignment_matrix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_assignment_matr...

abeppu 5y ago
Well, and: - Long term problems can outlast the tenure of any board member. - Board members are volunteering. What sort of "accountability" is appropriate? Can you pin millions in liability on whichever unit owner threw their hat into an election in the year preceding some terrible outcome? Why would anyone be a board member then?
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  See underfunded retirement benefits for government employees and unmaintained infrastructure. Even setting aside the issue of incentives in the short term versus long term, by the time leaders and voters will be gone, the voters are usually not willing to pay higher taxes or condo fees, nor are they even in a position to properly evaluate and prioritize problems.
MattGaiser 5y ago
To be accountable, a person needs to be in charge. Board president is often just one vote of many.

OnionBlender 5y ago

I rent but it feels like I'm just throwing away money every month compared to owning a condo. I used to own a condo but sold it years ago and moved to the U.S. for work. Selling it was idiotic in retrospect considering how much the value would have increased these past few years.