4 ms·

Assange isn't a US citizen. He's not charged with publishing the information but soliciting and attempting to assist in the exfiltration of the information. Wh

Assange isn't a US citizen. He's not charged with publishing the information but soliciting and attempting to assist in the exfiltration of the information. What Manning did was illegal whether you agree with her motivations or not. Soliciting someone with clearance to leak information and assisting them in the process is also illegal. It doesn't matter if Assange's assistance was effective or not. If all Assange did was publish information Manning brought to him, there would likely be no charges and they'd be easily dismissed otherwise. He'd have been clearly acting in the role as a journalist. But that's not what happened. Assange wants to be considered a journalist (with its protections) while at the same time playing spymaster and hacker.

anonymousiam 5y ago
It's okay when CIA convinces some non-US citizen to become an agent and provide secrets from their government. All governments do this. Somehow it's different in Assange's case because he is not government entity.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  > It's okay when CIA convinces some non-US citizen to become an agent and provide secrets from their government. All governments do this. Somehow it's different in Assange's case because he is not government entity. It's pretty standard to be friendly to people who spy for you, and hostile to those who spy against you. If the FBI catches a Russian spy who doesn't have diplomatic cover, that person is going to get prosecuted (and if they do have cover they'll become persona non grata and expelled); ditto if the Russians catch an American spy.
- giantrobot 5y ago
  All governments do that but those agents are persecuted when they're caught by the targeted government. If the spymaster is also caught they'll also be persecuted under the target country's laws unless they have some sort of diplomatic cover from their own government.
- anonymousiam 5y ago
  Replying to myself because the two replies apparently missed the distinction between the entity doing the "coercion" (Assange/CIA) and the entity doing the spying (the agent, or Manning in this case). Nobody prosecutes the CIA/GRU/PRC for coercing others to spy.
  - giantrobot 5y ago
    > Nobody prosecutes the CIA/GRU/PRC for coercing others to spy. Except for expulsion of diplomats, arrests of agents, sanctions against government officials, indictments for officials and agents, and of course war. Besides all of those things that happen all the time nobody prosecutes spy agencies. eyeroll Assange is a self-styled spymaster that's not actually very good at the job. Spies that go around advertising their spying and bragging about conspiracies of which they are a part are not good spies.
34679 5y ago
>He's not charged with publishing the information but soliciting and attempting to assist in the exfiltration of the information. He's charged with both. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-charged-18-count-superseding-indictment https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-julian-assa... Criminal No. 1:18-cr-l 11 (CMH)Count 1: 18 U.S.C.§ 793(g)Conspiracy To Receive National DefenseInformation Counts 2-4:18 U.S.C. § 793(b) and 2Obtaining National Defense Information Counts 5-8: 18 U.S.C. § 793(c) and 2Obtaining National Defense Information Counts 9-11: 18 U.S.C. § 793(d) and 2Disclosure of National Defense Information Counts 12-14: 18 U.S.C. § 793(e) and 2Disclosure of National Defense Information Counts 15-17: 18 U.S.C. § 793(e)Disclosure of National Defense Information Count 18: 18 U.S.C. §§ 371 and 1030Conspiracy To Commit Computer Intrusion
- giantrobot 5y ago
  Sorry but you're not correct. Here's [0] the law he's being charged of violating. You'll notice that intent is the crux of the disclosure subsections he's being charged under. He's being charged with publishing the information he received with the intent to do harm to the US. That's what the prosecution will argue and his defense for those charges will be entirely about intent. Independently intent would be a difficult thing to prove but his public actions and the conspiracy charges with will be used to establish intent. Like I said, he wants to claim all of the protections of journalism while he's acting as a spymaster. I don't really think it's possible to claim (objectively) any of Assange's actions with Wikileaks could be considered journalism. Besides not really practicing anything that might be considered journalism he also exercised a lot of editorial control in what Wikileaks didn't or wouldn't publish. [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793
  - 34679 5y ago
    You previously claimed he's charged with "soliciting and attempting to assist in the exfiltration of the information", "not with publishing". I fail to see how arguing intent invalidates one without the other. I copied and pasted the charges from the indictment, which can be found at the bottom of the page I linked.

anonymousiam 5y ago

It's okay when CIA convinces some non-US citizen to become an agent and provide secrets from their government. All governments do this. Somehow it's different in Assange's case because he is not government entity.

tablespoon 5y ago
> It's okay when CIA convinces some non-US citizen to become an agent and provide secrets from their government. All governments do this. Somehow it's different in Assange's case because he is not government entity. It's pretty standard to be friendly to people who spy for you, and hostile to those who spy against you. If the FBI catches a Russian spy who doesn't have diplomatic cover, that person is going to get prosecuted (and if they do have cover they'll become persona non grata and expelled); ditto if the Russians catch an American spy.
giantrobot 5y ago
All governments do that but those agents are persecuted when they're caught by the targeted government. If the spymaster is also caught they'll also be persecuted under the target country's laws unless they have some sort of diplomatic cover from their own government.
anonymousiam 5y ago
Replying to myself because the two replies apparently missed the distinction between the entity doing the "coercion" (Assange/CIA) and the entity doing the spying (the agent, or Manning in this case). Nobody prosecutes the CIA/GRU/PRC for coercing others to spy.
- giantrobot 5y ago
  > Nobody prosecutes the CIA/GRU/PRC for coercing others to spy. Except for expulsion of diplomats, arrests of agents, sanctions against government officials, indictments for officials and agents, and of course war. Besides all of those things that happen all the time nobody prosecutes spy agencies. eyeroll Assange is a self-styled spymaster that's not actually very good at the job. Spies that go around advertising their spying and bragging about conspiracies of which they are a part are not good spies.

34679 5y ago

>He's not charged with publishing the information but soliciting and attempting to assist in the exfiltration of the information. He's charged with both. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-charged-18-count-superseding-indictment https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wikileaks-founder-julian-assa... Criminal No. 1:18-cr-l 11 (CMH)Count 1: 18 U.S.C.§ 793(g)Conspiracy To Receive National DefenseInformation Counts 2-4:18 U.S.C. § 793(b) and 2Obtaining National Defense Information Counts 5-8: 18 U.S.C. § 793(c) and 2Obtaining National Defense Information Counts 9-11: 18 U.S.C. § 793(d) and 2Disclosure of National Defense Information Counts 12-14: 18 U.S.C. § 793(e) and 2Disclosure of National Defense Information Counts 15-17: 18 U.S.C. § 793(e)Disclosure of National Defense Information Count 18: 18 U.S.C. §§ 371 and 1030Conspiracy To Commit Computer Intrusion

giantrobot 5y ago
Sorry but you're not correct. Here's [0] the law he's being charged of violating. You'll notice that intent is the crux of the disclosure subsections he's being charged under. He's being charged with publishing the information he received with the intent to do harm to the US. That's what the prosecution will argue and his defense for those charges will be entirely about intent. Independently intent would be a difficult thing to prove but his public actions and the conspiracy charges with will be used to establish intent. Like I said, he wants to claim all of the protections of journalism while he's acting as a spymaster. I don't really think it's possible to claim (objectively) any of Assange's actions with Wikileaks could be considered journalism. Besides not really practicing anything that might be considered journalism he also exercised a lot of editorial control in what Wikileaks didn't or wouldn't publish. [0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793
- 34679 5y ago
  You previously claimed he's charged with "soliciting and attempting to assist in the exfiltration of the information", "not with publishing". I fail to see how arguing intent invalidates one without the other. I copied and pasted the charges from the indictment, which can be found at the bottom of the page I linked.