4 ms·

Are you a dog? This kind of personifying glib is what gives vegan/vegetarian ethics a bad name. It completely ignores domestication and how dogs evolved as hum

by verall 5y ago

Are you a dog? This kind of personifying glib is what gives vegan/vegetarian ethics a bad name. It completely ignores domestication and how dogs evolved as human-following scavenger animals. Most dog breeds are not adapted to living without humans. Dogs in the wild live much shorter lives and get parasites.

moralestapia 5y ago
>Are you a dog? Yes, I am a sentient dog with an internet connection. >Dogs in the wild live much shorter lives and get parasites. This is true of humans as well. Honestly, I think a dog would outlast many of us in the wild. Your point is moot.
- verall 5y ago
  It's not, my points are clear and well argued ;) You aren't a dog, so your preference for not living under the care of a human owner is not relevant. Dogs do not outlast us in the wild, because "the wild" is the real world we live in today. Stray dogs are invasive in most ecosystems, and are usually not well adapted to their environments. Dogs are intelligent enough to show preferences, and thanks to tens of thousands of years of selective breeding, they generally prefer people. Strays are a tragedy.
  - moralestapia 5y ago
    Ok, so I cannot comment on dogs since I am not a dog, But somehow you, who are not a dog as well (I presume), just happen to know that dogs prefer domestic life. Nice dissonance there, pal.
    - verall 5y ago
      There is no dissonance, the reasoning you gave was that you (or the reader) would certainly not prefer to live with benevolent captors as an emotional support object, so a dog likely would not either. This is not invalid reasoning, but Man's relationship with The Dog is more complicated than that. Domesticated dogs were created by selective breeding by humans over thousands of years, and this is well established. I posit that dogs on average prefer domestic life because they were selectively bred to prefer it for thousands of years. I am honestly surprised this is controversial. We know for a fact that many dog breeds are not compatible with living in nature without human help, and would not survive. What is the ethical thing to do now, that we cannot change the past, and domesticated animals exist? I don't think breeding dogs is ethical. I also don't think lettings dogs out into nature is ethical, at all.

by verall 5y ago

moralestapia 5y ago

>Are you a dog? Yes, I am a sentient dog with an internet connection. >Dogs in the wild live much shorter lives and get parasites. This is true of humans as well. Honestly, I think a dog would outlast many of us in the wild. Your point is moot.

verall 5y ago
It's not, my points are clear and well argued ;) You aren't a dog, so your preference for not living under the care of a human owner is not relevant. Dogs do not outlast us in the wild, because "the wild" is the real world we live in today. Stray dogs are invasive in most ecosystems, and are usually not well adapted to their environments. Dogs are intelligent enough to show preferences, and thanks to tens of thousands of years of selective breeding, they generally prefer people. Strays are a tragedy.
- moralestapia 5y ago
  Ok, so I cannot comment on dogs since I am not a dog, But somehow you, who are not a dog as well (I presume), just happen to know that dogs prefer domestic life. Nice dissonance there, pal.
  - verall 5y ago
    There is no dissonance, the reasoning you gave was that you (or the reader) would certainly not prefer to live with benevolent captors as an emotional support object, so a dog likely would not either. This is not invalid reasoning, but Man's relationship with The Dog is more complicated than that. Domesticated dogs were created by selective breeding by humans over thousands of years, and this is well established. I posit that dogs on average prefer domestic life because they were selectively bred to prefer it for thousands of years. I am honestly surprised this is controversial. We know for a fact that many dog breeds are not compatible with living in nature without human help, and would not survive. What is the ethical thing to do now, that we cannot change the past, and domesticated animals exist? I don't think breeding dogs is ethical. I also don't think lettings dogs out into nature is ethical, at all.