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Say what you want about Amazon as a company, Jeff was a world-class operator and (relatively) drama free for 27 years. I'm still holding out for a 'big reveal'

Say what you want about Amazon as a company, Jeff was a world-class operator and (relatively) drama free for 27 years. I'm still holding out for a 'big reveal' on his vision for the 2nd half of his career - hopefully more than just an egotistical space race. The world is depending on him given his outsized influence and wealth.

donmcronald 5y ago
We shouldn’t be depending on people that ruthlessly exploit others to gain their wealth. We should be shunning them.
kennywinker 5y ago
“World class operator” while employees pee in bottles on the warehouse floor to meet quotas. That’s not a world class operator, that’s a world class tyrant.
- gccs 5y ago
  People act like peeing in bottles is so bad. I really don't get it. Have you never peed in a bottle? Like they have access to toilets for #2 which is great. Ask anyone doing carpet cleaning or another home based trade. Where do you think they pee and poo? They dont do it in the clients home. They go in a bottle or into a bucket in the back of their van.
  - kennywinker 5y ago
    I’m focusing on peeing in a bottle because I think it’s particularly dehumanizing and humiliating part of amazon’s horrible labour practices. And for the record, if you’re doing a job in my house, you can use my toilet. Whatever social stigmas there are around contractors and cleaners using the house toilet - those are the same classist and toxic forces that let people justify dehumanizing work.
  - munificent 5y ago
    > Ask anyone doing carpet cleaning or another home based trade. Where do you think they pee and poo? Any time I have contractors working at my house, they use my bathroom like a human being. What dystopian hellhole are you advocating for here?
    - jmkni 5y ago
      I think (and hope) OP was being sarcastic
- timcambrant 5y ago
  Depends on who you ask, I guess. A large portion of our class has certainly moved to idolizing the owner/leader, rather than cheering for the laborer. It’s going to get worse before it gets better.
  - 0xdeadb00f 5y ago
    "It's going to get worse before it gets better" Things seem to be just getting worse and worse. When does it get better, huh? I'm still waiting.
    - timcambrant 5y ago
      Well, again that depends on your political stance. Some argue for reform, others for revolution, and yet others argue for some type of technological progress that could "solve things." I think history shows that being passive seldom gives you any rewards, when looking at people grouped by ethnicity, class, gender, etc. No matter what you think of the worker's movements, they did produce unions that did bring huge benefits like vacation, paid parental leave, etc. Especially in Europe. This is an example of being "active" as a group towards another group, and then reaping some benefits from that. I think we have seen a huge decline in activity from workers as a group, and an equal push of activity from big companies. Couple that with hugely increased globalization etc, and you soon get large factories where people piss in jugs while hoping to not get caught emptying their bladder without registering for taking a break, and it is going to get worse until some group actively decides to do something about this.
Klinky 5y ago
This is the problem of capitalism. The unrealistic reliance on benevolent billionaires to do what's best for society, and not what's in their own best interest to the detriment of society.
- imwillofficial 5y ago
  I see this less as an intrinsic problem with capitalism, and more of a failure for our government to do its job, protect citizens and enforce healthy boundaries in society. Instead we have sweetheart deals and tax breaks.
  - Klinky 5y ago
    I think it is intrinsic. Capital is just code for "power and control", the more money and capital you gain, the more persuasive power you have on everyone, including the government that should be regulating your behavior to the benefit of the people, and not specific corporate interests.
    - imwillofficial 5y ago
      Nope, capital just means money. Maybe it brings power and control, maybe it doesn’t. The two are not intrinsically linked. There are people far more poor, and far more powerful than me in our current system.
      - Klinky 5y ago
        In a system where you need money to survive, you inherently gain more power and more control with the more money you have. Maybe these people have more "social capital" than you, but that doesn't go far if you can't survive. The desperation economy is designed to keep a lot of monkeys dancing for peanuts.
        imwillofficial 5y ago
        On this, we agree.
sdesol 5y ago
> The world is depending on him given his outsized influence and wealth. Bernie Sanders had a great response in a town forum where the panelist was trying to get him to acknowledge how grateful we should be for billionaires and their helping hand during the pandemic. What he said was, he thinks it is great that they (billionaires) are doing charity work, but the fact is, for a nation as rich as the United States, being thankful for billionaire hand outs is ridiculous. We (developed nations) honestly shouldn't be in a situation where we rely on billionaires to prosper and be excited about it.
effie 5y ago
> Say what you want about Amazon as a company, Jeff was a world-class operator If you're admitting critique of Amazon, you're admitting critique of Jeff Bezos. He could try to make it a great company for all stakeholders, instead we got abnoxious near monopoly that pushed out smaller retailers and lowered standards in all kinds of ways. Employees get shitty working conditions laced with work-harder propaganda, buyers have to use a shitty website with real products mixed with shitty fake products with faked reviews.
boublepop 5y ago
I guess he’s “drama free” in the same sense that Putin’s drama free. Not much room for drama when your average worker is too scared to speak up and anyone attempting to push back on inhumane conditions finds themselves fired before they even mange to speak to more than a dozen coworkers.

donmcronald 5y ago

We shouldn’t be depending on people that ruthlessly exploit others to gain their wealth. We should be shunning them.

kennywinker 5y ago

“World class operator” while employees pee in bottles on the warehouse floor to meet quotas. That’s not a world class operator, that’s a world class tyrant.

gccs 5y ago
People act like peeing in bottles is so bad. I really don't get it. Have you never peed in a bottle? Like they have access to toilets for #2 which is great. Ask anyone doing carpet cleaning or another home based trade. Where do you think they pee and poo? They dont do it in the clients home. They go in a bottle or into a bucket in the back of their van.
- kennywinker 5y ago
  I’m focusing on peeing in a bottle because I think it’s particularly dehumanizing and humiliating part of amazon’s horrible labour practices. And for the record, if you’re doing a job in my house, you can use my toilet. Whatever social stigmas there are around contractors and cleaners using the house toilet - those are the same classist and toxic forces that let people justify dehumanizing work.
- munificent 5y ago
  > Ask anyone doing carpet cleaning or another home based trade. Where do you think they pee and poo? Any time I have contractors working at my house, they use my bathroom like a human being. What dystopian hellhole are you advocating for here?
  - jmkni 5y ago
    I think (and hope) OP was being sarcastic
timcambrant 5y ago
Depends on who you ask, I guess. A large portion of our class has certainly moved to idolizing the owner/leader, rather than cheering for the laborer. It’s going to get worse before it gets better.
- 0xdeadb00f 5y ago
  "It's going to get worse before it gets better" Things seem to be just getting worse and worse. When does it get better, huh? I'm still waiting.
  - timcambrant 5y ago
    Well, again that depends on your political stance. Some argue for reform, others for revolution, and yet others argue for some type of technological progress that could "solve things." I think history shows that being passive seldom gives you any rewards, when looking at people grouped by ethnicity, class, gender, etc. No matter what you think of the worker's movements, they did produce unions that did bring huge benefits like vacation, paid parental leave, etc. Especially in Europe. This is an example of being "active" as a group towards another group, and then reaping some benefits from that. I think we have seen a huge decline in activity from workers as a group, and an equal push of activity from big companies. Couple that with hugely increased globalization etc, and you soon get large factories where people piss in jugs while hoping to not get caught emptying their bladder without registering for taking a break, and it is going to get worse until some group actively decides to do something about this.

Klinky 5y ago

This is the problem of capitalism. The unrealistic reliance on benevolent billionaires to do what's best for society, and not what's in their own best interest to the detriment of society.

imwillofficial 5y ago
I see this less as an intrinsic problem with capitalism, and more of a failure for our government to do its job, protect citizens and enforce healthy boundaries in society. Instead we have sweetheart deals and tax breaks.
- Klinky 5y ago
  I think it is intrinsic. Capital is just code for "power and control", the more money and capital you gain, the more persuasive power you have on everyone, including the government that should be regulating your behavior to the benefit of the people, and not specific corporate interests.
  - imwillofficial 5y ago
    Nope, capital just means money. Maybe it brings power and control, maybe it doesn’t. The two are not intrinsically linked. There are people far more poor, and far more powerful than me in our current system.
    - Klinky 5y ago
      In a system where you need money to survive, you inherently gain more power and more control with the more money you have. Maybe these people have more "social capital" than you, but that doesn't go far if you can't survive. The desperation economy is designed to keep a lot of monkeys dancing for peanuts.
      - imwillofficial 5y ago
        On this, we agree.

sdesol 5y ago

> The world is depending on him given his outsized influence and wealth. Bernie Sanders had a great response in a town forum where the panelist was trying to get him to acknowledge how grateful we should be for billionaires and their helping hand during the pandemic. What he said was, he thinks it is great that they (billionaires) are doing charity work, but the fact is, for a nation as rich as the United States, being thankful for billionaire hand outs is ridiculous. We (developed nations) honestly shouldn't be in a situation where we rely on billionaires to prosper and be excited about it.

effie 5y ago

> Say what you want about Amazon as a company, Jeff was a world-class operator If you're admitting critique of Amazon, you're admitting critique of Jeff Bezos. He could try to make it a great company for all stakeholders, instead we got abnoxious near monopoly that pushed out smaller retailers and lowered standards in all kinds of ways. Employees get shitty working conditions laced with work-harder propaganda, buyers have to use a shitty website with real products mixed with shitty fake products with faked reviews.

boublepop 5y ago

I guess he’s “drama free” in the same sense that Putin’s drama free. Not much room for drama when your average worker is too scared to speak up and anyone attempting to push back on inhumane conditions finds themselves fired before they even mange to speak to more than a dozen coworkers.