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We have been omnivores for tens of thousands of years. Part of the reason we were so successful at colonizing the planet was due to our omnivorous nature. Peop

We have been omnivores for tens of thousands of years. Part of the reason we were so successful at colonizing the planet was due to our omnivorous nature. People with a vegan ideology (not just a vegan diet) have an exceptionally narrow comprehension of the nature of food as culture, as it relates to cost and convenience, and the true ecological impacts of any sort of agriculture. Ideas like this: > it's just wrong to enslave sentient non-human animals Are so unfathomably ignorant in the context of the global human condition, both historically and in the current era.

sweetheart 5y ago
I agree we have eaten animals for thousands of years, and large parts of our culture revolve around eating animals. But its sort of a fallacy to use that to explain why we _should_ do it it, or why it's morally permissable. There are loads of things we did for a long time that we stopped doing because they were bad. Simply put, just because we've done it forever doesn't mean we should anymore, as things have changed. > so unfathomably ignorant in the context of the global human condition How so? I'm not saying there aren't other issues, I'm just saying that this is _also_ bad. I'm curious what you meant, because I think you and I actually probably agree on a lot of stuff.
chrispine 5y ago
Factory farming is not tens of thousands of years old. Equating that to hunting and fishing (which I think you are doing, but maybe I'm misreading you) would be "unfathomably ignorant" as well.
prteja11 5y ago
That’s a very broadly generalization. I have a vegan ideology and I understand the culture behind food. But I also know that culture is constantly changing. We are also very aware of ecological impacts of agriculture (may not be the “true” ecological impact as I’m not sure if there are any long term studies on that). What I know is there might be some communities/ countries that can’t move away from animal based protein yet, but for a lot of people living in industrialized countries like USA/UK, eating animal bodies/products is not a necessity for survival (or a healthy life).
uxcolumbo 5y ago
First of all - thanks for thinking about this critically and choosing to reduce your meat consumption. Humans evolve and we create new technology that allows us to live better than we did in the past. We have reached a point where a lot of humans on this planet don't need to kill (or pay others to kill) to survive anymore. It's mostly about taste and pleasure - not survival. Ethan Brown - founder of Beyond Meat - created his company because he knew you can't change culture overnight. But if you offer something that is like meat or better and cheaper then people would switch. If you live in nature and you need to hunt or raise animals to survive - sure you got to do what you need to survive. But a lot of us are not living under those conditions anymore. Factory farming is causing a lot of destruction and we need to find more sustainable ways to feed the world.

sweetheart 5y ago

I agree we have eaten animals for thousands of years, and large parts of our culture revolve around eating animals. But its sort of a fallacy to use that to explain why we _should_ do it it, or why it's morally permissable. There are loads of things we did for a long time that we stopped doing because they were bad. Simply put, just because we've done it forever doesn't mean we should anymore, as things have changed. > so unfathomably ignorant in the context of the global human condition How so? I'm not saying there aren't other issues, I'm just saying that this is _also_ bad. I'm curious what you meant, because I think you and I actually probably agree on a lot of stuff.

chrispine 5y ago

Factory farming is not tens of thousands of years old. Equating that to hunting and fishing (which I think you are doing, but maybe I'm misreading you) would be "unfathomably ignorant" as well.

prteja11 5y ago

That’s a very broadly generalization. I have a vegan ideology and I understand the culture behind food. But I also know that culture is constantly changing. We are also very aware of ecological impacts of agriculture (may not be the “true” ecological impact as I’m not sure if there are any long term studies on that). What I know is there might be some communities/ countries that can’t move away from animal based protein yet, but for a lot of people living in industrialized countries like USA/UK, eating animal bodies/products is not a necessity for survival (or a healthy life).

uxcolumbo 5y ago

First of all - thanks for thinking about this critically and choosing to reduce your meat consumption. Humans evolve and we create new technology that allows us to live better than we did in the past. We have reached a point where a lot of humans on this planet don't need to kill (or pay others to kill) to survive anymore. It's mostly about taste and pleasure - not survival. Ethan Brown - founder of Beyond Meat - created his company because he knew you can't change culture overnight. But if you offer something that is like meat or better and cheaper then people would switch. If you live in nature and you need to hunt or raise animals to survive - sure you got to do what you need to survive. But a lot of us are not living under those conditions anymore. Factory farming is causing a lot of destruction and we need to find more sustainable ways to feed the world.