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It's true that our bodies are all different, but this is a very common point made by carnists (folks who use animal products, basically the opposite of vegans),

It's true that our bodies are all different, but this is a very common point made by carnists (folks who use animal products, basically the opposite of vegans), yet I've never been able to find any research on anything that comes from animal products that prevents health issues. I'm genuinely curious if someone could point me in the direction of some material which talks about what it is in animal products that prevents these ailments from occurring. I wonder if it's almost always the case of folks making a dietary switch and not making sure they know how to get everything they need in a balanced diet from non-animal sources, which is actually not hard. EDIT: I may have misread your comment and interpreted your misery as being due to the diet itself, not the psychological toll of the veganism, so apologies if that's the case! Still interested in any research for what I asked about though, if anyone has it handy!

spacephysics 5y ago
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants#2.-Creatine https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-ge... Further, many nutrients are far more bio-available than their plant based counterparts. Supplementing for them also isn’t the best substitute. There’s still a demonization of saturated fats despite the heart claims being largely falsified by the sugar industry, and claims of unprocessed meats causing colon cancer being exaggerated substantially (even for processed meats, there’s an increase, but as I recall it’s minimal. Larger chance of lung cancer from city living than colon cancer from occasional processed meat) Each person I believe (key word) has ancestral lineage that describes what foods they can handle best. Hence why we see some people thrive on plant based, and others (like myself) was completely miserable despite taking all the necessary steps. Going the opposite (carnivore) was better in blood markers and we’ll-being for me.
- sweetheart 5y ago
  That article starts with: "Vegan and vegetarian diets are both very healthy ways of eating. They’ve been linked to multiple health benefits and a lower risk of excess weight, heart disease, and even some types of cancer." Which was an interesting choice for you, I think. Also there are some seriously misleading facts in the article: B12 doesn't from from meat, and meat only has B12 today because animals are supplemented with it. DHA comes from algae, so again, the animals you eat have it as a result of having eaten plants. Creatine, carnosine, and taurine are considered nonessential, in the very article. And with regard to iron: "However, iron deficiency is easy to avoid on a well-planned vegan diet", according to the article. But this is kind of irrelevant, because even if these things _were_ hard to get for vegans and supplements were needed, it still makes veganism a moral imperative, because the small price to pay of taking a pill to save billions of sentient animals every year is a no brainer.
  - verall 5y ago
    If people stop eating meat, who is paying for the well being of those billions of animals? I'm not trying to be glib. If humans did not ever eat meat, we would not have ever domesticated cattle, but we did. So if everyone stops eating meat, what happens to all of cattle? We can set them free, but we have bred out most of their ability to compete in nature on their own, we would be leaving most for death. Or we can continue to farm historically domesticated animals benevolently.
    - sweetheart 5y ago
      You're totally right, we can't just set them all free, as it would ruin ecosystems. What we can do is taper our meat consumption down so the animals that are alive now will be killed and used, but we would stop adding new ones to the system. That way we ween off of livestock, their suffering ends, and we avoid an ecological disaster. Farms will have top adapt, because we don't want all the folks in animal agriculture to be out of a job all of a sudden, so it'd take some time. But we can do it, for sure. But asking those kinds of questions is really important, so thank you for posing it.
    - summm 5y ago
      Livestock only lives for some months before slaughtering. Just keep slaughtering while not breeding new ones, and after a few months there will be no livestock left.
Zababa 5y ago
> yet I've never been able to find any research on anything that comes from animal products that prevents health issues From what I've heard from carnivore people, it's usually the opposite. It's not that eating meat prevent health issues, it's that eating some vegetables causes them. Carnivore is a form of elimination diet, which can help some people. For example, if you are gluten intolerant, being carnivore will make you feel better. If you are sensitive to nightshades (some people claim to be and I don't want to dismiss their experience), carnivore will work too. Veganism can work the same way for some people (lactose intolerant people for example, people that get allergic to mammal meat due to Lyme's). I personally think that we tend to underestimate the variations from individual to individual, and that studies don't help with that as nutritional studies are usually self reported and not really solid, and don't take into account confounding factors. For example, vegans and carnivore both have a huge healthy user bias compared to the standard american diet. I think everyone should try different diets and use what's best for them. One big difference between carnivore (or even keto) and veganism however is that veganism is also a diet based on moral and values. As such, it's hard to see vegans as less biased than keto followers or carnivore followers.
- ssijak 5y ago
  If you are sensitive to nightshades, removing nightshades from the diet would do the trick, people dont have to go full blast carnivore
  - Zababa 5y ago
    The same would apply to people sensitive to gluten and going vegan, people don't have to go full blast vegan. But many vegan may be benefiting from it and think it's the vegan diet. Unless you remove everything and reintroduce everything one by one it's hard to know exactly what makes you react or not.
    - ssijak 5y ago
      Veganism is not only related to food, it is conscious decision to lessen the unneeded suffering and exploitation of animals. Which includes using them for food but is not limited on food. People on carnivore diet do not have that overarching ethical stance which guides their decisions. So saying "people don't have to go full blast vegan" is not the same as "people don't have to go full blast carnivore" because people rarely go vegan because of the diet, they do it because of the animals. Doing it only because of the diet would probably be called "plant based" eating now a days.

spacephysics 5y ago

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-get-from-plants#2.-Creatine https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/7-nutrients-you-cant-ge... Further, many nutrients are far more bio-available than their plant based counterparts. Supplementing for them also isn’t the best substitute. There’s still a demonization of saturated fats despite the heart claims being largely falsified by the sugar industry, and claims of unprocessed meats causing colon cancer being exaggerated substantially (even for processed meats, there’s an increase, but as I recall it’s minimal. Larger chance of lung cancer from city living than colon cancer from occasional processed meat) Each person I believe (key word) has ancestral lineage that describes what foods they can handle best. Hence why we see some people thrive on plant based, and others (like myself) was completely miserable despite taking all the necessary steps. Going the opposite (carnivore) was better in blood markers and we’ll-being for me.

sweetheart 5y ago
That article starts with: "Vegan and vegetarian diets are both very healthy ways of eating. They’ve been linked to multiple health benefits and a lower risk of excess weight, heart disease, and even some types of cancer." Which was an interesting choice for you, I think. Also there are some seriously misleading facts in the article: B12 doesn't from from meat, and meat only has B12 today because animals are supplemented with it. DHA comes from algae, so again, the animals you eat have it as a result of having eaten plants. Creatine, carnosine, and taurine are considered nonessential, in the very article. And with regard to iron: "However, iron deficiency is easy to avoid on a well-planned vegan diet", according to the article. But this is kind of irrelevant, because even if these things _were_ hard to get for vegans and supplements were needed, it still makes veganism a moral imperative, because the small price to pay of taking a pill to save billions of sentient animals every year is a no brainer.
- verall 5y ago
  If people stop eating meat, who is paying for the well being of those billions of animals? I'm not trying to be glib. If humans did not ever eat meat, we would not have ever domesticated cattle, but we did. So if everyone stops eating meat, what happens to all of cattle? We can set them free, but we have bred out most of their ability to compete in nature on their own, we would be leaving most for death. Or we can continue to farm historically domesticated animals benevolently.
  - sweetheart 5y ago
    You're totally right, we can't just set them all free, as it would ruin ecosystems. What we can do is taper our meat consumption down so the animals that are alive now will be killed and used, but we would stop adding new ones to the system. That way we ween off of livestock, their suffering ends, and we avoid an ecological disaster. Farms will have top adapt, because we don't want all the folks in animal agriculture to be out of a job all of a sudden, so it'd take some time. But we can do it, for sure. But asking those kinds of questions is really important, so thank you for posing it.
  - summm 5y ago
    Livestock only lives for some months before slaughtering. Just keep slaughtering while not breeding new ones, and after a few months there will be no livestock left.

Zababa 5y ago

> yet I've never been able to find any research on anything that comes from animal products that prevents health issues From what I've heard from carnivore people, it's usually the opposite. It's not that eating meat prevent health issues, it's that eating some vegetables causes them. Carnivore is a form of elimination diet, which can help some people. For example, if you are gluten intolerant, being carnivore will make you feel better. If you are sensitive to nightshades (some people claim to be and I don't want to dismiss their experience), carnivore will work too. Veganism can work the same way for some people (lactose intolerant people for example, people that get allergic to mammal meat due to Lyme's). I personally think that we tend to underestimate the variations from individual to individual, and that studies don't help with that as nutritional studies are usually self reported and not really solid, and don't take into account confounding factors. For example, vegans and carnivore both have a huge healthy user bias compared to the standard american diet. I think everyone should try different diets and use what's best for them. One big difference between carnivore (or even keto) and veganism however is that veganism is also a diet based on moral and values. As such, it's hard to see vegans as less biased than keto followers or carnivore followers.

ssijak 5y ago
If you are sensitive to nightshades, removing nightshades from the diet would do the trick, people dont have to go full blast carnivore
- Zababa 5y ago
  The same would apply to people sensitive to gluten and going vegan, people don't have to go full blast vegan. But many vegan may be benefiting from it and think it's the vegan diet. Unless you remove everything and reintroduce everything one by one it's hard to know exactly what makes you react or not.
  - ssijak 5y ago
    Veganism is not only related to food, it is conscious decision to lessen the unneeded suffering and exploitation of animals. Which includes using them for food but is not limited on food. People on carnivore diet do not have that overarching ethical stance which guides their decisions. So saying "people don't have to go full blast vegan" is not the same as "people don't have to go full blast carnivore" because people rarely go vegan because of the diet, they do it because of the animals. Doing it only because of the diet would probably be called "plant based" eating now a days.