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> Six hundred billion dollars per year, and growing in "unpaid taxes". I foolishly tried to file my own taxes in 2018. Used the IRS's free online calculator. A

> Six hundred billion dollars per year, and growing in "unpaid taxes". I foolishly tried to file my own taxes in 2018. Used the IRS's free online calculator. According to the letter I got recently, when I put $11k into some tax-advantaged retirement account, it resulted in me not counting that $11k as income, but I actually put it in the wrong account, so that $11k should have counted as income on which I owed taxes. To put it lightly, I am _extremely unsympathetic_ to the IRS complaining about "unpaid taxes" when... i mean, literally everything about the system is broken. There are 1000 things I'd rather spend the $80k/yr my wife and I have taken from me, under threats of violence, by the many agencies who think they have a right to our income. I'm struggling to understand the arrogance that's just dripping through this entire piece. People in America are struggling right now, it's been a difficult two years. The heads of the "revenue collection agencies", complaining about how their job is difficult? Cry me a river.

pitaj 5y ago
I agree completely. If the IRS want an easier time, we should simplify the tax code, not give them more resources for enforcement.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  You say that like the IRS has any power at all to simplify the tax code. That's all congress, who are paid by H&R block and rich people in general to keep it complicated.
  - pitaj 5y ago
    No I was not implying that at all. Congress also must be involved in giving the IRS more resources, either through budget or more information access.
LanceH 5y ago
Sure the government has gotten it wrong in the past. But this time we need more government because the right guys are in charge and it will work better this time. Promise.
madhadron 5y ago
Your read of the situation is truly bizarre. Yes, the system is broken. That's not the IRS's fault. They have no power to fix it. And complaining about the system being broken because you make a mistake and it had consequences, and because you have to pay taxes on a large income in order to pay for the costs of operating a modern society, is just whining.
muskox2 5y ago
Perhaps if the system was given more resources it might have a chance to become less broken. Of course just pouring money into the problem alone won't fix it, but I think it's clear to see the IRS cannot continue to operate on the level of funding it currently gets.
baldeagle 5y ago
I think the difference is that you know that you 'intended' to put the money in the correct account, but the government doesn't care about intent, it only cares about what actually happened. Furthermore, I'm not sure that the free tax form should be blamed for your misattribution of your funds (unless it was prompted and/or executed by the form). So, double checking everyone's taxes (a step you didn't pay for someone to do for yours) is a hard job. But without that work, the penalties would only be worse in the future. So maybe have a little gratitude for those taking care of you when you don't take care of yourself.
gadders 5y ago
Implement a flat tax. That would make it easier to collect taxes (and I'm not even saying whether taxation levels should be higher or lower than now. Just pick a rate and get rid of the exemptions). Sadly it would result in less people employed as tax collectors, so tax collectors won't advocate that. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
- XorNot 5y ago
  A flat tax is a tax hike on the poorest % of Americans if you try to maintain current spending (hint: you have to, because the US is carrying trillions in debt and spends more then any other country on Earth on it's military). The taxable burden you'll impose on people for whom every dollar is the difference between essential services, versus the wealthy for whom every dollar is the difference between more investment in their offshore bank account (which they have no incentive not to keep using, because why pay any tax if you don't have to?)
- zbrozek 5y ago
  There's also going to be a lot of people complaining that flat taxes are regressive because the marginal value of money is different depending on how much you have. Taking that to its logical conclusion means taxing or subsidizing everyone to exactly the same buying power. I'd rather see a no-deduction, no-exception flat tax that treats all income the same coupled with a UBI to give people a flexible but modestly uncomfortable safety net. Personally I care less about equality and more about fairness. Getting rid of complexity and giving everyone equal access to the benefits of and the burden to support society while reducing complexity and compliance costs sounds great to me. And it still sounds great if my tax burden doesn't change one iota when implemented. If society feels that it's bad to have a handful of mega rich people, look at modifying the competition laws that let their empires get too big in the first place.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > There's also going to be a lot of people complaining that flat taxes are regressive because the marginal value of money is different depending on how much you have. Taking that to its logical conclusion means taxing or subsidizing everyone to exactly the same buying power. Er, no, it means assessing the marginal utility curve and taxing everyone an amount that represents the same share of the pre-tax utility of their income, if you believe that taxes should be flat when viewed through a utility rather than dollar lens. That's very different than taxing or subsidizing to the same end value. In fact, its just a progressive tax.

pitaj 5y ago

I agree completely. If the IRS want an easier time, we should simplify the tax code, not give them more resources for enforcement.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
You say that like the IRS has any power at all to simplify the tax code. That's all congress, who are paid by H&R block and rich people in general to keep it complicated.
- pitaj 5y ago
  No I was not implying that at all. Congress also must be involved in giving the IRS more resources, either through budget or more information access.

LanceH 5y ago

Sure the government has gotten it wrong in the past. But this time we need more government because the right guys are in charge and it will work better this time. Promise.

madhadron 5y ago

Your read of the situation is truly bizarre. Yes, the system is broken. That's not the IRS's fault. They have no power to fix it. And complaining about the system being broken because you make a mistake and it had consequences, and because you have to pay taxes on a large income in order to pay for the costs of operating a modern society, is just whining.

muskox2 5y ago

Perhaps if the system was given more resources it might have a chance to become less broken. Of course just pouring money into the problem alone won't fix it, but I think it's clear to see the IRS cannot continue to operate on the level of funding it currently gets.

baldeagle 5y ago

I think the difference is that you know that you 'intended' to put the money in the correct account, but the government doesn't care about intent, it only cares about what actually happened. Furthermore, I'm not sure that the free tax form should be blamed for your misattribution of your funds (unless it was prompted and/or executed by the form). So, double checking everyone's taxes (a step you didn't pay for someone to do for yours) is a hard job. But without that work, the penalties would only be worse in the future. So maybe have a little gratitude for those taking care of you when you don't take care of yourself.

gadders 5y ago

Implement a flat tax. That would make it easier to collect taxes (and I'm not even saying whether taxation levels should be higher or lower than now. Just pick a rate and get rid of the exemptions). Sadly it would result in less people employed as tax collectors, so tax collectors won't advocate that. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

XorNot 5y ago
A flat tax is a tax hike on the poorest % of Americans if you try to maintain current spending (hint: you have to, because the US is carrying trillions in debt and spends more then any other country on Earth on it's military). The taxable burden you'll impose on people for whom every dollar is the difference between essential services, versus the wealthy for whom every dollar is the difference between more investment in their offshore bank account (which they have no incentive not to keep using, because why pay any tax if you don't have to?)
zbrozek 5y ago
There's also going to be a lot of people complaining that flat taxes are regressive because the marginal value of money is different depending on how much you have. Taking that to its logical conclusion means taxing or subsidizing everyone to exactly the same buying power. I'd rather see a no-deduction, no-exception flat tax that treats all income the same coupled with a UBI to give people a flexible but modestly uncomfortable safety net. Personally I care less about equality and more about fairness. Getting rid of complexity and giving everyone equal access to the benefits of and the burden to support society while reducing complexity and compliance costs sounds great to me. And it still sounds great if my tax burden doesn't change one iota when implemented. If society feels that it's bad to have a handful of mega rich people, look at modifying the competition laws that let their empires get too big in the first place.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > There's also going to be a lot of people complaining that flat taxes are regressive because the marginal value of money is different depending on how much you have. Taking that to its logical conclusion means taxing or subsidizing everyone to exactly the same buying power. Er, no, it means assessing the marginal utility curve and taxing everyone an amount that represents the same share of the pre-tax utility of their income, if you believe that taxes should be flat when viewed through a utility rather than dollar lens. That's very different than taxing or subsidizing to the same end value. In fact, its just a progressive tax.