4 ms·

So even if we accept everything being said of the Neanderthals, this is left completely undefended: > Why does every culture have legends of monstrous humanoid

So even if we accept everything being said of the Neanderthals, this is left completely undefended: > Why does every culture have legends of monstrous humanoids, and why are they are always depicted as fearsome and dangerous? Because the legends were real. The orcs were real. Is the author really suggesting that these stories are the product of an unbroken chain of 50,000 years of oral tradition? If not, what do events from 50,000 years ago have to do with myths from 2000-6000 years ago?

gpm 5y ago
Are you suggesting that there isn't an unbroken chain of oral tradition? That for some generations in the middle every child didn't talk to their parents or other members of the older generation? It's a game of broken telephone no doubt, but I don't see how that chain could not exist.
- TaupeRanger 5y ago
  I think the salient point is that it's likely, given our imaginations, that we would've concocted stories about monstrous humanoids regardless of whether they actually existed alongside us. It shouldn't be surprising.
- username90 5y ago
  50k years would be ~2500 generations. I doubt any traces of oral traditions are left after thousands of generations.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
Ozzie_osman 5y ago
What we fear is probably a combination of nature and nurture. Our fear of orc-looking people could be a combination of 50K years of oral tradition AND us evolving to be scared of people who look like orcs.
throwaway316943 5y ago
The stories we tell are never cut from whole cloth, they are a constant mixing and blending of ancient tradition with contemporary experience. I don’t doubt that any folklore which has reached us from the distant past has been remade a thousand times but the heart of the story has likely survived. The fear of it is so intense it has been bred into us. The thump of something heavy in the night, the bristling silence of a stealthy, lurking beast. The glimpse of a dark fearsome shape. The looming threat of a powerful limb tearing you from your bed. The feeling that this presence is not simply some hungry and fearful animal but a malevolent intelligence that seeks to do you harm. You feel it deep within you, the fear not of tooth and claw but an inhumanly powerful hand grabbing you from behind.
lalaithion 5y ago
Australian oral history has made well-tested geographical depictions that go back 10,000 years, so it's not inconceivable that myths and stories could have influences 50,0000 years ago.

gpm 5y ago

Are you suggesting that there isn't an unbroken chain of oral tradition? That for some generations in the middle every child didn't talk to their parents or other members of the older generation? It's a game of broken telephone no doubt, but I don't see how that chain could not exist.

TaupeRanger 5y ago
I think the salient point is that it's likely, given our imaginations, that we would've concocted stories about monstrous humanoids regardless of whether they actually existed alongside us. It shouldn't be surprising.
username90 5y ago
50k years would be ~2500 generations. I doubt any traces of oral traditions are left after thousands of generations.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

Ozzie_osman 5y ago

What we fear is probably a combination of nature and nurture. Our fear of orc-looking people could be a combination of 50K years of oral tradition AND us evolving to be scared of people who look like orcs.

throwaway316943 5y ago

The stories we tell are never cut from whole cloth, they are a constant mixing and blending of ancient tradition with contemporary experience. I don’t doubt that any folklore which has reached us from the distant past has been remade a thousand times but the heart of the story has likely survived. The fear of it is so intense it has been bred into us. The thump of something heavy in the night, the bristling silence of a stealthy, lurking beast. The glimpse of a dark fearsome shape. The looming threat of a powerful limb tearing you from your bed. The feeling that this presence is not simply some hungry and fearful animal but a malevolent intelligence that seeks to do you harm. You feel it deep within you, the fear not of tooth and claw but an inhumanly powerful hand grabbing you from behind.

lalaithion 5y ago

Australian oral history has made well-tested geographical depictions that go back 10,000 years, so it's not inconceivable that myths and stories could have influences 50,0000 years ago.