4 ms·

Unpopular opinion… Could it be that women (in general) want something more in life than working in a big company for a nice wage? Study after study after stud

Unpopular opinion… Could it be that women (in general) want something more in life than working in a big company for a nice wage? Study after study after study show that women want families and other things other than the standard mega corporation employment that society has trained us to expect. I’d bet if one looked at the numbers one would see that women as a whole are leaving google and other companies just as much as black women. And it’s not about google. It’s just about people wanting something different that working in a mega corporation.

eplanit 5y ago
Google infamously fired a male engineer for speculating on such things. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google's_Ideological_Echo_Chamber https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google's_Ideological_Echo_Ch...
- eric4smith 5y ago
  Yup. And at the time I thought he was wrong. But even though he was an ass, studies have proved him absolutely right.
  - wreath 5y ago
    Studies have "proved him right" because he used studies in his memos! He wasn't really talking out of his ass, he referenced tons of studies irrc. Whether you agree with those studies or not is a different story. (not you personally)
- vmception 5y ago
  I have found it extremely strange, mostly of "anti-right" crowds, to never see an educational moment in anything. Its just "if you weren't exposed to our views by this point in your life and don't accept them uncritically then you are ostracized" is that useful?
  - _fat_santa 5y ago
    That's because if you actually start digging at some of these moments, you will quickly find that their arguments fall apart. The only way to prevent this is with the assumption "oh well if you don't already understand then you never will"
    - vmception 5y ago
      Emphasis on some which is indistinguishable from people open to other perspectives that simply haven't been articulated well, or could be discussed amicably, or perspectives that really shouldnt be accepted uncritically yet
- kache_ 5y ago
  The message is clear then, avoid all conversations about this very topic at your work place and let the chips fall where they may.
  - eplanit 5y ago
    I completely agree. But there was hypocrisy: Google allowed (maybe still does) conversation on that topic -- but the views he had on that topic didn't agree with the narrative that was/is popular. Those chips fell quite unfairly.
    - vmception 5y ago
      The common theme I see is that people keep thinking they are comfortable on Google’s message boards when they should just ignore it for their duration at Google
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  He was fired because many employees refused to work with him. How can you employ someone who can't communicate with his coworkers?
  - throw_m239339 5y ago
    > He was fired because many employees refused to work with him. How can you employ someone who can't communicate with his coworkers? No, Google is huge, they could have put that guy in another team or whatever. He was fired because someone leaked his memo and the press managed to make it bad PR for google. He was fired for PR reasons nothing more, in an era that was all about "girls in tech" in a patronizing fashion.
    - colinmhayes 5y ago
      Teams have to work with each other. If he needs help from someone who is disgusted by his manifesto google has a problem.
      - throw_m239339 5y ago
        > If he needs help from someone who is disgusted by his manifesto google has a problem. This is mostly a cultural issue. Being professional is being able to work with people you fundamentally disagree with from a political perspective. But maybe Google shouldn't be a space where people discuss wedge issues to begin with, or write memos about anything on the matter.
        colinmhayes 5y ago
        Sure, but the fact still remains. There absolutely are people who would behave this way within google, so google's choices are fire hundreds or maybe thousands of people or fire him. It was an easy choice.
        username90 5y ago
        People who publicly talked about views far more extreme views than Damore are still working at Google. People can work with each other even if they don't like their views, the only reason Damore was fired was because he was dumb enough to write his thoughts in an easily shareable format rather than just a string of chat messages.
MyHypatia 5y ago
Yes, women would hate working at a big company with a great salary, great family leave benefits, flexibility to work from home, and flexibility on when to start their day. They'd much rather work in female dominated professions like teaching, retail, and hospitality where there is no flexibility to work from home, no flexibility on when to start their day, lower salaries, and fewer family leave benefits. sarcasm
- esyir 5y ago
  Teaching is an interesting case, you have the opposite there, where male teachers are not looked upon favorably.

eplanit 5y ago

Google infamously fired a male engineer for speculating on such things. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google's_Ideological_Echo_Chamber https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google's_Ideological_Echo_Ch...

eric4smith 5y ago
Yup. And at the time I thought he was wrong. But even though he was an ass, studies have proved him absolutely right.
- wreath 5y ago
  Studies have "proved him right" because he used studies in his memos! He wasn't really talking out of his ass, he referenced tons of studies irrc. Whether you agree with those studies or not is a different story. (not you personally)
vmception 5y ago
I have found it extremely strange, mostly of "anti-right" crowds, to never see an educational moment in anything. Its just "if you weren't exposed to our views by this point in your life and don't accept them uncritically then you are ostracized" is that useful?
- _fat_santa 5y ago
  That's because if you actually start digging at some of these moments, you will quickly find that their arguments fall apart. The only way to prevent this is with the assumption "oh well if you don't already understand then you never will"
  - vmception 5y ago
    Emphasis on some which is indistinguishable from people open to other perspectives that simply haven't been articulated well, or could be discussed amicably, or perspectives that really shouldnt be accepted uncritically yet
kache_ 5y ago
The message is clear then, avoid all conversations about this very topic at your work place and let the chips fall where they may.
- eplanit 5y ago
  I completely agree. But there was hypocrisy: Google allowed (maybe still does) conversation on that topic -- but the views he had on that topic didn't agree with the narrative that was/is popular. Those chips fell quite unfairly.
  - vmception 5y ago
    The common theme I see is that people keep thinking they are comfortable on Google’s message boards when they should just ignore it for their duration at Google
colinmhayes 5y ago
He was fired because many employees refused to work with him. How can you employ someone who can't communicate with his coworkers?
- throw_m239339 5y ago
  > He was fired because many employees refused to work with him. How can you employ someone who can't communicate with his coworkers? No, Google is huge, they could have put that guy in another team or whatever. He was fired because someone leaked his memo and the press managed to make it bad PR for google. He was fired for PR reasons nothing more, in an era that was all about "girls in tech" in a patronizing fashion.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    Teams have to work with each other. If he needs help from someone who is disgusted by his manifesto google has a problem.
    - throw_m239339 5y ago
      > If he needs help from someone who is disgusted by his manifesto google has a problem. This is mostly a cultural issue. Being professional is being able to work with people you fundamentally disagree with from a political perspective. But maybe Google shouldn't be a space where people discuss wedge issues to begin with, or write memos about anything on the matter.
      - colinmhayes 5y ago
        Sure, but the fact still remains. There absolutely are people who would behave this way within google, so google's choices are fire hundreds or maybe thousands of people or fire him. It was an easy choice.
        username90 5y ago
        People who publicly talked about views far more extreme views than Damore are still working at Google. People can work with each other even if they don't like their views, the only reason Damore was fired was because he was dumb enough to write his thoughts in an easily shareable format rather than just a string of chat messages.

MyHypatia 5y ago

Yes, women would hate working at a big company with a great salary, great family leave benefits, flexibility to work from home, and flexibility on when to start their day. They'd much rather work in female dominated professions like teaching, retail, and hospitality where there is no flexibility to work from home, no flexibility on when to start their day, lower salaries, and fewer family leave benefits. sarcasm

esyir 5y ago
Teaching is an interesting case, you have the opposite there, where male teachers are not looked upon favorably.