4 ms·

I'm learning German at the moment. Everything is gendered. Such a strange way of looking at the world. And the unfortunate "das Mädchen" [0] - the German word

I'm learning German at the moment. Everything is gendered. Such a strange way of looking at the world. And the unfortunate "das Mädchen" [0] - the German word for "young woman" is neutral gender (because it's a compound noun and the "-chen" suffix is neutral). I wonder how that affects German society when all young women are objects. Does this de-emphasise their femininity, or increase their "sexual object"-ness? [0] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/M%C3%A4dchen https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/M%C3%A4dchen

mastazi 5y ago
Interesting I didn't know that. In Italian there is no neutral gender, Latin had it but in modern Italian it has been lost. > Does this de-emphasise their femininity, or increase their "sexual object"-ness? My hypothesis is that having it might de-emphasise the link between grammatical gender and gender identity of a person, this link is very strong in the English language because in English the only time you use gendered language you are talking about a person, in those other languages you use gendered words to refer to a pot or a chair :-)
tomp 5y ago
Theres also “das kind” (the child). And I’m sure other examples. You simply don’t understand how other languages work, and you’re projecting your own ideas onto them. And German is a whole different class than Latin and Slavic languages - AFAIK there’s now way to “tell” the gender of a word in German. In contrast, in Spanish, Italian (not sure about French) and Slovenian words actually “sound” either feminine or masculine (or neutral, but those are rarer and mostly for inanimate objects), because gender is based on word endings.
- marcus_holmes 5y ago
  Yes. I am projecting my own ideas on them. That's how brains work. Also the wonderful nature of travel is being exposed to other cultures and their strange ideas about the planet. This isn't negative. Yeah, I gather that Germans intuit the gender of a new word - it just "feels" masculine or feminine (or neutral). Fascinating.
- bmn__ 5y ago
  > AFAIK there’s now way to “tell” the gender of a word in German That's incorrect, there are rules. (These rules have a few exceptions.) m: -en, -er, -ig, -ismus, -ist, -ling, -m, -or f: -ät, -e, -ei, -enz, -heit, -ie, -ik, -in, -ion, -keit, -schaft, -ung, -ur n: -chen, -lein, -ment, -nis, -tum, -um That makes the proposed contrast weaker than you initially thought.
  - tomp 5y ago
    If anything, the contrast is stronger. Slovenian: -a feminine, -o, -e neutrum, rest masculine. (Again, some exceptions.) Italian and Spain is probably even simpler, since there’s no neutrum.
    - bmn__ 5y ago
      > the contrast is stronger That's mathematically impossible.
throwaway210222 5y ago
> Does this de-emphasise their femininity, or increase their "sexual object"-ness? Or secret option c): it has absolutely no effect on how they treat their women because they aren't actually that dumb.
ceilingcorner 5y ago
Things that are “different” are not “strange.”
- marcus_holmes 5y ago
  they are to me. Is there a problem with being "strange" to someone from a different culture?
  - ceilingcorner 5y ago
    The word strange implies otherness and inferiority.
    - marcus_holmes 5y ago
      not to me. I love strange things. They challenge my status quo.

mastazi 5y ago

Interesting I didn't know that. In Italian there is no neutral gender, Latin had it but in modern Italian it has been lost. > Does this de-emphasise their femininity, or increase their "sexual object"-ness? My hypothesis is that having it might de-emphasise the link between grammatical gender and gender identity of a person, this link is very strong in the English language because in English the only time you use gendered language you are talking about a person, in those other languages you use gendered words to refer to a pot or a chair :-)

tomp 5y ago

Theres also “das kind” (the child). And I’m sure other examples. You simply don’t understand how other languages work, and you’re projecting your own ideas onto them. And German is a whole different class than Latin and Slavic languages - AFAIK there’s now way to “tell” the gender of a word in German. In contrast, in Spanish, Italian (not sure about French) and Slovenian words actually “sound” either feminine or masculine (or neutral, but those are rarer and mostly for inanimate objects), because gender is based on word endings.

marcus_holmes 5y ago
Yes. I am projecting my own ideas on them. That's how brains work. Also the wonderful nature of travel is being exposed to other cultures and their strange ideas about the planet. This isn't negative. Yeah, I gather that Germans intuit the gender of a new word - it just "feels" masculine or feminine (or neutral). Fascinating.
bmn__ 5y ago
> AFAIK there’s now way to “tell” the gender of a word in German That's incorrect, there are rules. (These rules have a few exceptions.) m: -en, -er, -ig, -ismus, -ist, -ling, -m, -or f: -ät, -e, -ei, -enz, -heit, -ie, -ik, -in, -ion, -keit, -schaft, -ung, -ur n: -chen, -lein, -ment, -nis, -tum, -um That makes the proposed contrast weaker than you initially thought.
- tomp 5y ago
  If anything, the contrast is stronger. Slovenian: -a feminine, -o, -e neutrum, rest masculine. (Again, some exceptions.) Italian and Spain is probably even simpler, since there’s no neutrum.
  - bmn__ 5y ago
    > the contrast is stronger That's mathematically impossible.

throwaway210222 5y ago

> Does this de-emphasise their femininity, or increase their "sexual object"-ness? Or secret option c): it has absolutely no effect on how they treat their women because they aren't actually that dumb.

ceilingcorner 5y ago

Things that are “different” are not “strange.”

marcus_holmes 5y ago
they are to me. Is there a problem with being "strange" to someone from a different culture?
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  The word strange implies otherness and inferiority.
  - marcus_holmes 5y ago
    not to me. I love strange things. They challenge my status quo.