3 ms·

Okay, clinical pathology in hospital settings aside, what country are you talking about? Here in Germany cause of death determination for COVID-19 deaths is par

Okay, clinical pathology in hospital settings aside, what country are you talking about? Here in Germany cause of death determination for COVID-19 deaths is part of the data we gather. Random German state (Bavaria) for example [0]: Cause of death known for 98% of all COVID-19 deaths, 87% of these died from the disease, 13% from other causes. I just don't really see how it's misattribution when that data is available (which I assume it would be in any country not completely overwhelmed by the pandemic). [0] https://www.lgl.bayern.de/gesundheit/infektionsschutz/infektionskrankheiten_a_z/coronavirus/karte_coronavirus/index.htm#tote_geschlecht https://www.lgl.bayern.de/gesundheit/infektionsschutz/infekt...

cm2187 5y ago
Well, in France for instance, this ICU specialist says that 3 patients out of 8 he saw going through the ICU are classified as covid patients because they tested positive but are not in ICU for Covid [1, around 18min into the video]. Now this is one ICU, and not all deaths occur in ICUs, so I wouldn't extrapolate it to national numbers. But it certainly makes me think that covid deaths are over-estimated. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1hOyShXHak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1hOyShXHak
- majewsky 5y ago
  Just because they're tested positive for Covid and later die in the hospital, doesn't mean that the death certificate will state Covid as cause of death.
  - cm2187 5y ago
    That may be but it's not necessarily how the covid deaths stats are collected. I believe in the UK for instance, the definition of a covid death is a death that occurred within 28 days of a positive test, irrespective of the cause of death.
    - tastroder 5y ago
      There's not one way to collect these stats, see the section "ONS and PHE COVID-19 deaths data are produced in different ways and have different purposes:" in [0] on what the UK gathers how. Neither of which changes the excess deaths resulting from the pandemic. It's just a matter of timeliness in some cases and up to the consumer of such data to decide which is suitable for which analysis (and honestly a moot point, no country tests enough to warrant the assumption that the odd accidental death that is later corrected would be worse than the effects of undercounting). [0] https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathssolelyfromcovid19ratherthandeathswithin28daysofapositivetest https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/fre...
- thatfrenchguy 5y ago
  Excess death data clearly shows this is not a big factor: https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2021/01/15/covid-19-en-france-54-000-morts-supplementaires-en-2020-selon-l-insee_1817700/ https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2021/01/15/covid-19-en-f... Dude is also a known antivax: https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpxwx/how-france-became-the-global-centre-of-vaccine-resistance https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpxwx/how-france-became-the... Not too surprising when you see where he works ;-).

cm2187 5y ago

Well, in France for instance, this ICU specialist says that 3 patients out of 8 he saw going through the ICU are classified as covid patients because they tested positive but are not in ICU for Covid [1, around 18min into the video]. Now this is one ICU, and not all deaths occur in ICUs, so I wouldn't extrapolate it to national numbers. But it certainly makes me think that covid deaths are over-estimated. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1hOyShXHak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1hOyShXHak

majewsky 5y ago
Just because they're tested positive for Covid and later die in the hospital, doesn't mean that the death certificate will state Covid as cause of death.
- cm2187 5y ago
  That may be but it's not necessarily how the covid deaths stats are collected. I believe in the UK for instance, the definition of a covid death is a death that occurred within 28 days of a positive test, irrespective of the cause of death.
  - tastroder 5y ago
    There's not one way to collect these stats, see the section "ONS and PHE COVID-19 deaths data are produced in different ways and have different purposes:" in [0] on what the UK gathers how. Neither of which changes the excess deaths resulting from the pandemic. It's just a matter of timeliness in some cases and up to the consumer of such data to decide which is suitable for which analysis (and honestly a moot point, no country tests enough to warrant the assumption that the odd accidental death that is later corrected would be worse than the effects of undercounting). [0] https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathssolelyfromcovid19ratherthandeathswithin28daysofapositivetest https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/fre...
thatfrenchguy 5y ago
Excess death data clearly shows this is not a big factor: https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2021/01/15/covid-19-en-france-54-000-morts-supplementaires-en-2020-selon-l-insee_1817700/ https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2021/01/15/covid-19-en-f... Dude is also a known antivax: https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpxwx/how-france-became-the-global-centre-of-vaccine-resistance https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpxwx/how-france-became-the... Not too surprising when you see where he works ;-).