4 ms·

There's also enough studies that debunk the myth at this point. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-82862-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-82

There's also enough studies that debunk the myth at this point. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-82862-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-82862-5 for example.

cm2187 5y ago
There might be more serious studies out there, but the abstract in your link says that they selected 26 patients with severe covid and verified that they died of covid. It is a bit circular and certainly not applicable to the countrywide covid stats.
- tastroder 5y ago
  Okay, clinical pathology in hospital settings aside, what country are you talking about? Here in Germany cause of death determination for COVID-19 deaths is part of the data we gather. Random German state (Bavaria) for example [0]: Cause of death known for 98% of all COVID-19 deaths, 87% of these died from the disease, 13% from other causes. I just don't really see how it's misattribution when that data is available (which I assume it would be in any country not completely overwhelmed by the pandemic). [0] https://www.lgl.bayern.de/gesundheit/infektionsschutz/infektionskrankheiten_a_z/coronavirus/karte_coronavirus/index.htm#tote_geschlecht https://www.lgl.bayern.de/gesundheit/infektionsschutz/infekt...
  - cm2187 5y ago
    Well, in France for instance, this ICU specialist says that 3 patients out of 8 he saw going through the ICU are classified as covid patients because they tested positive but are not in ICU for Covid [1, around 18min into the video]. Now this is one ICU, and not all deaths occur in ICUs, so I wouldn't extrapolate it to national numbers. But it certainly makes me think that covid deaths are over-estimated. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1hOyShXHak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1hOyShXHak
    - majewsky 5y ago
      Just because they're tested positive for Covid and later die in the hospital, doesn't mean that the death certificate will state Covid as cause of death.
      - cm2187 5y ago
        That may be but it's not necessarily how the covid deaths stats are collected. I believe in the UK for instance, the definition of a covid death is a death that occurred within 28 days of a positive test, irrespective of the cause of death.
        tastroder 5y ago
        There's not one way to collect these stats, see the section "ONS and PHE COVID-19 deaths data are produced in different ways and have different purposes:" in [0] on what the UK gathers how. Neither of which changes the excess deaths resulting from the pandemic. It's just a matter of timeliness in some cases and up to the consumer of such data to decide which is suitable for which analysis (and honestly a moot point, no country tests enough to warrant the assumption that the odd accidental death that is later corrected would be worse than the effects of undercounting). [0] https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathssolelyfromcovid19ratherthandeathswithin28daysofapositivetest https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/fre...
    - thatfrenchguy 5y ago
      Excess death data clearly shows this is not a big factor: https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2021/01/15/covid-19-en-france-54-000-morts-supplementaires-en-2020-selon-l-insee_1817700/ https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2021/01/15/covid-19-en-f... Dude is also a known antivax: https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpxwx/how-france-became-the-global-centre-of-vaccine-resistance https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpxwx/how-france-became-the... Not too surprising when you see where he works ;-).

There's also enough studies that debunk the myth at this point. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-82862-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-82862-5 for example.

cm2187 5y ago

There might be more serious studies out there, but the abstract in your link says that they selected 26 patients with severe covid and verified that they died of covid. It is a bit circular and certainly not applicable to the countrywide covid stats.

tastroder 5y ago
Okay, clinical pathology in hospital settings aside, what country are you talking about? Here in Germany cause of death determination for COVID-19 deaths is part of the data we gather. Random German state (Bavaria) for example [0]: Cause of death known for 98% of all COVID-19 deaths, 87% of these died from the disease, 13% from other causes. I just don't really see how it's misattribution when that data is available (which I assume it would be in any country not completely overwhelmed by the pandemic). [0] https://www.lgl.bayern.de/gesundheit/infektionsschutz/infektionskrankheiten_a_z/coronavirus/karte_coronavirus/index.htm#tote_geschlecht https://www.lgl.bayern.de/gesundheit/infektionsschutz/infekt...
- cm2187 5y ago
  Well, in France for instance, this ICU specialist says that 3 patients out of 8 he saw going through the ICU are classified as covid patients because they tested positive but are not in ICU for Covid [1, around 18min into the video]. Now this is one ICU, and not all deaths occur in ICUs, so I wouldn't extrapolate it to national numbers. But it certainly makes me think that covid deaths are over-estimated. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1hOyShXHak https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1hOyShXHak
  - majewsky 5y ago
    Just because they're tested positive for Covid and later die in the hospital, doesn't mean that the death certificate will state Covid as cause of death.
    - cm2187 5y ago
      That may be but it's not necessarily how the covid deaths stats are collected. I believe in the UK for instance, the definition of a covid death is a death that occurred within 28 days of a positive test, irrespective of the cause of death.
      - tastroder 5y ago
        There's not one way to collect these stats, see the section "ONS and PHE COVID-19 deaths data are produced in different ways and have different purposes:" in [0] on what the UK gathers how. Neither of which changes the excess deaths resulting from the pandemic. It's just a matter of timeliness in some cases and up to the consumer of such data to decide which is suitable for which analysis (and honestly a moot point, no country tests enough to warrant the assumption that the odd accidental death that is later corrected would be worse than the effects of undercounting). [0] https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathssolelyfromcovid19ratherthandeathswithin28daysofapositivetest https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/fre...
  - thatfrenchguy 5y ago
    Excess death data clearly shows this is not a big factor: https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2021/01/15/covid-19-en-france-54-000-morts-supplementaires-en-2020-selon-l-insee_1817700/ https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2021/01/15/covid-19-en-f... Dude is also a known antivax: https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpxwx/how-france-became-the-global-centre-of-vaccine-resistance https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjpxwx/how-france-became-the... Not too surprising when you see where he works ;-).