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> A nation is a group of people that agree they have a common ancestral origin (note that this may be factually untrue!). The Oxford dictionary defines it as "

> A nation is a group of people that agree they have a common ancestral origin (note that this may be factually untrue!). The Oxford dictionary defines it as "a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory." So, they also include physical proximity. So, religion, language or just history may constitute enough commonality to talk about a "nation". In my experience is also quite common to see that people disagrees about their own nations extend. In Catalonia some people may think that they are "Catalan" meanwhile others think that they are "Spanish", and both groups may have common ancestry.

bildung 5y ago
Dictionary definitions are for everyday meaning of words. Academic definitions are for academic discussions - which the article refers to. Both can diverge, and often do significantly (i.e. the meaning "crypto" right now in the general internet vs. its meaning in computer science).
- zhdc1 5y ago
  > Dictionary definitions are for everyday meaning of words. Academic definitions are for academic discussions - which the article refers to. Both can diverge, and often do significantly (i.e. the meaning "crypto" right now in the general internet vs. its meaning in computer science). Barrington 1997 (227 cites), the first result when you search "definition nation" in Google Scholar, defines a nation as "a collective united by shared cultural features and the belief in the right to territorial self-determination." The United States certainly falls into this definition.
  - bildung 5y ago
    A more verbose quote from that paper: "What makes nations unique is that they are collectives united by shared cultural features (myths, values, etc.) and the belief in the right to territorial self-determination. Thus, nations are groups of people linked by unifying traits and the desire to control a territory that is thought of as the group's national homeland. The belief in the right to territorial control is central to distinguishing nations from other collectives. Many groups hold common myths, values, and symbols (e.g., religious groups, ethnic groups, or even professional associations). But nations are not just unified by culture; they are unified by a sense of purpose: controlling the territory that the members of the group believe to be theirs." This is almost identical to the use Bret Devereaux uses in the artice. It is not any shared cultural feature (but e.g. a common origin myth would fit), and the people have to feel a sense of purpose, of common past and future relative to their homeland. As stated in the article, that certainly fits Native American Nations, but not the US as a whole, as Barrington discusses in the next paragraph, "Nation: Misuses".
    - zhdc1 5y ago
      From Devereaux: "A nation... is an entity that is imagined to extend both into the past and into the future, recreating itself, generation to generation; it is through the common birth that the common culture and history are supposedly shared." "Attempting to find a common birth origin for even a slim majority of Americans is a hopeless case." From Barrington: "Also, and more important, nations need not even be based on a certain ethnic identity. Thus, the words "shared cultural features" in the definition of nation above should not be read as "shared ethnic identity." Very few European nation states fit Devereaux's concept of a nation. The Normans (Scandinavian), the Franks (Germanic), and the Galic-Romans (Romanized Celts) all make up a significant part of the historical French population. And yet, even though a majority of French citizens didn't even speak French until the 19th century (compare this against a 75-80% English literacy rate in the US at the same time), no one today would argue that France isn't a nation state.
throw0101a 5y ago
> The Oxford dictionary defines it as "a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory." So, they also include physical proximity. Dictionaries, Oxford or otherwise, gives definitions of words in colloquial uses as well. According to OED, "literally" now also means "figuratively": > 3. (informal) used to emphasize a word or phrase, even if it is not actually true in a literal sense * https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/literally https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis... The day-to-day use of a word may be looser than that used by experts' use in a particular field. The use of the word "hacker" or "hack" in the general public may have a different meaning/connotation/history than to people on HN.

bildung 5y ago

Dictionary definitions are for everyday meaning of words. Academic definitions are for academic discussions - which the article refers to. Both can diverge, and often do significantly (i.e. the meaning "crypto" right now in the general internet vs. its meaning in computer science).

zhdc1 5y ago
> Dictionary definitions are for everyday meaning of words. Academic definitions are for academic discussions - which the article refers to. Both can diverge, and often do significantly (i.e. the meaning "crypto" right now in the general internet vs. its meaning in computer science). Barrington 1997 (227 cites), the first result when you search "definition nation" in Google Scholar, defines a nation as "a collective united by shared cultural features and the belief in the right to territorial self-determination." The United States certainly falls into this definition.
- bildung 5y ago
  A more verbose quote from that paper: "What makes nations unique is that they are collectives united by shared cultural features (myths, values, etc.) and the belief in the right to territorial self-determination. Thus, nations are groups of people linked by unifying traits and the desire to control a territory that is thought of as the group's national homeland. The belief in the right to territorial control is central to distinguishing nations from other collectives. Many groups hold common myths, values, and symbols (e.g., religious groups, ethnic groups, or even professional associations). But nations are not just unified by culture; they are unified by a sense of purpose: controlling the territory that the members of the group believe to be theirs." This is almost identical to the use Bret Devereaux uses in the artice. It is not any shared cultural feature (but e.g. a common origin myth would fit), and the people have to feel a sense of purpose, of common past and future relative to their homeland. As stated in the article, that certainly fits Native American Nations, but not the US as a whole, as Barrington discusses in the next paragraph, "Nation: Misuses".
  - zhdc1 5y ago
    From Devereaux: "A nation... is an entity that is imagined to extend both into the past and into the future, recreating itself, generation to generation; it is through the common birth that the common culture and history are supposedly shared." "Attempting to find a common birth origin for even a slim majority of Americans is a hopeless case." From Barrington: "Also, and more important, nations need not even be based on a certain ethnic identity. Thus, the words "shared cultural features" in the definition of nation above should not be read as "shared ethnic identity." Very few European nation states fit Devereaux's concept of a nation. The Normans (Scandinavian), the Franks (Germanic), and the Galic-Romans (Romanized Celts) all make up a significant part of the historical French population. And yet, even though a majority of French citizens didn't even speak French until the 19th century (compare this against a 75-80% English literacy rate in the US at the same time), no one today would argue that France isn't a nation state.

throw0101a 5y ago

> The Oxford dictionary defines it as "a large body of people united by common descent, history, culture, or language, inhabiting a particular country or territory." So, they also include physical proximity. Dictionaries, Oxford or otherwise, gives definitions of words in colloquial uses as well. According to OED, "literally" now also means "figuratively": > 3. (informal) used to emphasize a word or phrase, even if it is not actually true in a literal sense * https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/literally https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/englis... The day-to-day use of a word may be looser than that used by experts' use in a particular field. The use of the word "hacker" or "hack" in the general public may have a different meaning/connotation/history than to people on HN.