6 ms·

Pinterest bans weight loss ads in first for major social networks

64 points by prawn 5y ago

tolbish 5y ago
> Sarah Bromma, Pinterest’s head of policy, said in an interview that the rule change prioritised Pinterest users’ “emotional and mental health and wellbeing, especially those directly impacted by eating disorders or diet culture or body shaming”. This must mean they will be banning all makeup ads too, right? Think about how obsessive people can get over editing and filtering their photos and even more harmful practices like cheek or lip injections.
- vkou 5y ago
  It's entirely possible to draw an arbitrary line, right through a gray area. For instance, tobacco products are illegal to sell to someone under the age of 21. It's not because people magically become responsible on their 21st birthday, it's an arbitrary line drawn in a way to balance personal freedom, public welfare, and the need for cigarette manufacturers to make billions of dollars. As an outside observer looking in, online ads for weight loss products seem to be 70% scummy, 25% outright fraudulent, with maybe 5% of them selling something of value. I don't believe beauty and fashion products have a similar ratio.
  - unishark 5y ago
    Arbitrary also means wide open to corruption. I imagine there is a lot of money to be made in influencing Pinterest management in their arbitrary decisions now.
    - xyzzy123 5y ago
      It seems to me that getting rid of one bad thing (scammy slimming ads) can be positive - without them needing to be 100% consistent all the time or policing every possible bad thing. Claims to the contrary seem like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy I think what vkou is sharing is the core of a very common dilemma. You can allow "any legal ads" and you'll be derided as mercenary but at least you'll be entirely consistent. Or you can try to set out _some_ kind of boundaries about ads on your platform and get enmeshed in endless debate over whether a) which boundaries should exist b) how far out they should be drawn c) what side of that boundary a given data point is on d) whether boundary enforcement is subject to some kind of internal conspiracy or moral corruption. There's no winning move, because this is the Internet and you can't please everyone.
    - AussieWog93 5y ago
      I would be absolutely shocked if there was a secret deal between Pinterest management and a special interest group to get scam ads on the platform. It just doesn't make sense on a risk vs. reward basis.
    - gizmo 5y ago
      Of course every company already makes judgement calls about which ads to accept and which to reject. There is no fundamental difference between rejecting crypto scam ads that promise immense profits and diet scam ads that promise effortless weight loss. Nothing fundamentally changed here. It's not arbitrary to make decisions between shades of grey. Businesses make judgement calls all the time, it's unavoidable. The decisions are only arbitrary in the sense that you can't identify the exact boundary between OK and not-OK, but that's true for all judgement calls so there is no reason to presume a sudden increase in corruption.
    - hytdstd 5y ago
      Corruption? by "influencing Pinterest management in their arbitrary decisions", do you perhaps just mean a meeting between a business and a customer?
      - unishark 5y ago
        Is that how you'd describe the behavior of the VP of Netflix who accepted kickbacks to approve contracts? Corruption means a system not operating as it should.
        vkou 5y ago
        No, corruption is far more narrowly defined than the words you are using. It generally requires kickbacks quid pro quo preferential treatment. Also, Pinterest is not 'supposed' to be some 100% agnostic, eyes-shut-to-ad content ad network. There isn't some social, legal, or ethical requirement for them to be one. They have always discriminated with what advertisements they allow - for example, you cannot advertise pornography, you cannot advertise fraud and scams on it...
        unishark 5y ago
        So my corrupted file system was taking bribes? Just kidding but I like my definition just fine. It does require a degree of good faith interpretation of course. The Netflix case I cited did involve kickbacks. He was convicted in a federal court: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-netflix-executive-convicted-receiving-bribes-and-kickbacks-companies-contracting https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-netflix-executiv... Why is everyone so eager to pick fights in defense of Pinterest? I honestly don't know the difference between them and Instagram and snapchat. Is it some kind of beloved people's social network? When I make vague comments on Amazon threads, I get the opposite, hordes of triggered people thinking I'm an Amazon-defender to challenge.
- truthwhisperer 5y ago
  I googled here and she looked to me like a woke person
- rprwhite 5y ago
  This is a bit of a false dichotomy. A choice can be made to remove something, seen to be, having a negative impact on people without having to remove everything that is seen to have such an impact. One step in the right direction is still a step in the right direction.
  - tinalumfoil 5y ago
    Heart disease killed twice the people as COVID in 2020, I really doubt helping people feel okay being fat is "the right direction". https://cdn.jamanetwork.com/ama/content_public/journal/jama/938696/jvp210048t1_1620430592.92326.png?Expires=1628232312&Signature=eQWam6dcKZITn~lHLesiTJek~AmEAJaV1~CNVcnejzaDFvcnUi7pcbGCZRC1mrxwhX4--vfYp3biLHLAA1Ih8a1Wy0ULtrIkteB15g50FQnTZZYbWjYPxSFKyZDs1ndlocyJG~NG4uJYjoqL1AewiB6lY-2Vcdq6zOW8MaP6TTlmJ~jMkel41f5n8LYnT3gCSWxVdXezLjyTtSW8J4oxskOP4TXPTAa9ABDJ8-LG5YDg~LpeqhahL9NVxp5l6irx2HWtfnvuETT0mGajv3nQh6o1TL9voZHWZX~wqvHQbefZsVnxoKYFRSYrVE6DBDBWyG~A-5jLKWTzzQf~bGAarQ__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIE5G5CRDK6RD3PGA https://cdn.jamanetwork.com/ama/content_public/journal/jama/...
    - vkou 5y ago
      And do you think that scummy and often fraudulent weight loss pill ads are going to solve that problem? We are dealing with COVID by methods that have been tested for efficacy with significant scientific rigor. If the same rigor were applied to products shilled by weight loss ads, I don't think anyone would have an issue with them. It's not, though. Nobody goes to jail if their weight loss pills don't work, or put people in the hospital, or are just placebo sugar capsules.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
patrick451 5y ago
> Sarah Bromma, Pinterest’s head of policy, said in an interview that the rule change prioritised Pinterest users’ “emotional and mental health and wellbeing, especially those directly impacted by eating disorders or diet culture or body shaming” What about their physical well being? Morbid Obesity is no joke.
- vkou 5y ago
  It's no joke, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be cured by "one weird old trick Discovered By <zipcode> mom that doctor's don't want you to know about". Which is what a large fraction of the advertising in this space looks like to me.
- fake-name 5y ago
  Random people or ads telling fat people they should feel bad and go on a diet does not work.
  - chroem- 5y ago
    Do you have data to back that up, or is it conjecture?
    - henrikeh 5y ago
      Do you have evidence of the contrary? A 5 s search leads to this page from the US gov: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/truth-behind-weight-loss-ads-0 https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/truth-behind-weight-lo... Note that this page warns against weight loss ads — not weight loss, which they argue is a more complicated topic than an ad will convey. Further: https://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459 https://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459
      - chroem- 5y ago
        > Do you have evidence of the contrary? I'm not the one who carries the burden of proof, but I appreciate the sources. Thank you.
mrweasel 5y ago
While I like the idea, I don’t think Pinterest fully understand what they’ve done. They now has to defend every ad on the site. Everyone has a valid reason as to why some ad should be banned.
- awb 5y ago
  Surely they’ve rejected ads before this.
legulere 5y ago
Most ads are scams, as they sell you an image of something you cannot reach with the product. Cigarettes don’t turn you into a cool Cowboy. Just banning the worst offenders is not enough.
necovek 5y ago
Does anyone know what footprint does Pinterest have in the "social" sphere (considering the title calls it a "major social network")? I always thought it was just a scam to get people into their walled garden by overtaking every conceivable Google image search (to the point that "-site:pinterest.com" is my default when looking for images). I just can't imagine who are the actual users and what they get out of it?
trabant00 5y ago
While I dislike concepts like "body shaming", and don't believe obesity is due to "body type", I fully agree with the decision. Weight loss products are ALWAYS a scam and with the false hopes provided actually prevent the users from searching a working, healthy and long term solution. And I could go further than that: the entire internet fitness industry is a scam. I know it's a strong claim and I don't offer proof but the discussion is huge. "Unrealistic body standards" is a real thing - "influencers" are using steroids, plastic surgery, makeup, lighting, photoshop, dehydration, etc, while selling weight gainers, weight loss pills, horrible workout programs, etc. Source: my personal experience. I'm in my 40s, maintain six pack with enough strength to do handstand pushups and have done so for years.
tootahe45 5y ago
Pinterest and 'major social network' in the same title.. How about no.
- potatosalad1 5y ago
  Guessing you aren't female? Pinterest is huuuuge with women in their 30s and later (not sure about the younger ones)
asteroidbelt 5y ago
Read: income for these ads are 0.001% (or even more likely these ads significantly drive down user retention) so it is safe to throw them away loudly for free advertisement in popular media.
literallyaduck 5y ago
They show lots of desserts, it seems like the tobacco companies banning advertising for the nicotine patch on their cigarettes TV channel.
atatatat 5y ago
Protecting your market. Just like Walmart selling cheaper diabetes meds.

64 points by prawn 5y ago

> Sarah Bromma, Pinterest’s head of policy, said in an interview that the rule change prioritised Pinterest users’ “emotional and mental health and wellbeing, especially those directly impacted by eating disorders or diet culture or body shaming”. This must mean they will be banning all makeup ads too, right? Think about how obsessive people can get over editing and filtering their photos and even more harmful practices like cheek or lip injections.

vkou 5y ago
It's entirely possible to draw an arbitrary line, right through a gray area. For instance, tobacco products are illegal to sell to someone under the age of 21. It's not because people magically become responsible on their 21st birthday, it's an arbitrary line drawn in a way to balance personal freedom, public welfare, and the need for cigarette manufacturers to make billions of dollars. As an outside observer looking in, online ads for weight loss products seem to be 70% scummy, 25% outright fraudulent, with maybe 5% of them selling something of value. I don't believe beauty and fashion products have a similar ratio.
- unishark 5y ago
  Arbitrary also means wide open to corruption. I imagine there is a lot of money to be made in influencing Pinterest management in their arbitrary decisions now.
  - xyzzy123 5y ago
    It seems to me that getting rid of one bad thing (scammy slimming ads) can be positive - without them needing to be 100% consistent all the time or policing every possible bad thing. Claims to the contrary seem like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy I think what vkou is sharing is the core of a very common dilemma. You can allow "any legal ads" and you'll be derided as mercenary but at least you'll be entirely consistent. Or you can try to set out _some_ kind of boundaries about ads on your platform and get enmeshed in endless debate over whether a) which boundaries should exist b) how far out they should be drawn c) what side of that boundary a given data point is on d) whether boundary enforcement is subject to some kind of internal conspiracy or moral corruption. There's no winning move, because this is the Internet and you can't please everyone.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    I would be absolutely shocked if there was a secret deal between Pinterest management and a special interest group to get scam ads on the platform. It just doesn't make sense on a risk vs. reward basis.
  - gizmo 5y ago
    Of course every company already makes judgement calls about which ads to accept and which to reject. There is no fundamental difference between rejecting crypto scam ads that promise immense profits and diet scam ads that promise effortless weight loss. Nothing fundamentally changed here. It's not arbitrary to make decisions between shades of grey. Businesses make judgement calls all the time, it's unavoidable. The decisions are only arbitrary in the sense that you can't identify the exact boundary between OK and not-OK, but that's true for all judgement calls so there is no reason to presume a sudden increase in corruption.
  - hytdstd 5y ago
    Corruption? by "influencing Pinterest management in their arbitrary decisions", do you perhaps just mean a meeting between a business and a customer?
    - unishark 5y ago
      Is that how you'd describe the behavior of the VP of Netflix who accepted kickbacks to approve contracts? Corruption means a system not operating as it should.
      - vkou 5y ago
        No, corruption is far more narrowly defined than the words you are using. It generally requires kickbacks quid pro quo preferential treatment. Also, Pinterest is not 'supposed' to be some 100% agnostic, eyes-shut-to-ad content ad network. There isn't some social, legal, or ethical requirement for them to be one. They have always discriminated with what advertisements they allow - for example, you cannot advertise pornography, you cannot advertise fraud and scams on it...
        unishark 5y ago
        So my corrupted file system was taking bribes? Just kidding but I like my definition just fine. It does require a degree of good faith interpretation of course. The Netflix case I cited did involve kickbacks. He was convicted in a federal court: https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-netflix-executive-convicted-receiving-bribes-and-kickbacks-companies-contracting https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/pr/former-netflix-executiv... Why is everyone so eager to pick fights in defense of Pinterest? I honestly don't know the difference between them and Instagram and snapchat. Is it some kind of beloved people's social network? When I make vague comments on Amazon threads, I get the opposite, hordes of triggered people thinking I'm an Amazon-defender to challenge.
truthwhisperer 5y ago
I googled here and she looked to me like a woke person
rprwhite 5y ago
This is a bit of a false dichotomy. A choice can be made to remove something, seen to be, having a negative impact on people without having to remove everything that is seen to have such an impact. One step in the right direction is still a step in the right direction.
- tinalumfoil 5y ago
  Heart disease killed twice the people as COVID in 2020, I really doubt helping people feel okay being fat is "the right direction". https://cdn.jamanetwork.com/ama/content_public/journal/jama/938696/jvp210048t1_1620430592.92326.png?Expires=1628232312&Signature=eQWam6dcKZITn~lHLesiTJek~AmEAJaV1~CNVcnejzaDFvcnUi7pcbGCZRC1mrxwhX4--vfYp3biLHLAA1Ih8a1Wy0ULtrIkteB15g50FQnTZZYbWjYPxSFKyZDs1ndlocyJG~NG4uJYjoqL1AewiB6lY-2Vcdq6zOW8MaP6TTlmJ~jMkel41f5n8LYnT3gCSWxVdXezLjyTtSW8J4oxskOP4TXPTAa9ABDJ8-LG5YDg~LpeqhahL9NVxp5l6irx2HWtfnvuETT0mGajv3nQh6o1TL9voZHWZX~wqvHQbefZsVnxoKYFRSYrVE6DBDBWyG~A-5jLKWTzzQf~bGAarQ__&Key-Pair-Id=APKAIE5G5CRDK6RD3PGA https://cdn.jamanetwork.com/ama/content_public/journal/jama/...
  - vkou 5y ago
    And do you think that scummy and often fraudulent weight loss pill ads are going to solve that problem? We are dealing with COVID by methods that have been tested for efficacy with significant scientific rigor. If the same rigor were applied to products shilled by weight loss ads, I don't think anyone would have an issue with them. It's not, though. Nobody goes to jail if their weight loss pills don't work, or put people in the hospital, or are just placebo sugar capsules.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

patrick451 5y ago

vkou 5y ago
It's no joke, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to be cured by "one weird old trick Discovered By <zipcode> mom that doctor's don't want you to know about". Which is what a large fraction of the advertising in this space looks like to me.
fake-name 5y ago
Random people or ads telling fat people they should feel bad and go on a diet does not work.
- chroem- 5y ago
  Do you have data to back that up, or is it conjecture?
  - henrikeh 5y ago
    Do you have evidence of the contrary? A 5 s search leads to this page from the US gov: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/truth-behind-weight-loss-ads-0 https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/truth-behind-weight-lo... Note that this page warns against weight loss ads — not weight loss, which they argue is a more complicated topic than an ad will convey. Further: https://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459 https://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459
    - chroem- 5y ago
      > Do you have evidence of the contrary? I'm not the one who carries the burden of proof, but I appreciate the sources. Thank you.

mrweasel 5y ago

While I like the idea, I don’t think Pinterest fully understand what they’ve done. They now has to defend every ad on the site. Everyone has a valid reason as to why some ad should be banned.

awb 5y ago
Surely they’ve rejected ads before this.

legulere 5y ago

Most ads are scams, as they sell you an image of something you cannot reach with the product. Cigarettes don’t turn you into a cool Cowboy. Just banning the worst offenders is not enough.

necovek 5y ago

Does anyone know what footprint does Pinterest have in the "social" sphere (considering the title calls it a "major social network")? I always thought it was just a scam to get people into their walled garden by overtaking every conceivable Google image search (to the point that "-site:pinterest.com" is my default when looking for images). I just can't imagine who are the actual users and what they get out of it?

trabant00 5y ago

While I dislike concepts like "body shaming", and don't believe obesity is due to "body type", I fully agree with the decision. Weight loss products are ALWAYS a scam and with the false hopes provided actually prevent the users from searching a working, healthy and long term solution. And I could go further than that: the entire internet fitness industry is a scam. I know it's a strong claim and I don't offer proof but the discussion is huge. "Unrealistic body standards" is a real thing - "influencers" are using steroids, plastic surgery, makeup, lighting, photoshop, dehydration, etc, while selling weight gainers, weight loss pills, horrible workout programs, etc. Source: my personal experience. I'm in my 40s, maintain six pack with enough strength to do handstand pushups and have done so for years.

tootahe45 5y ago

Pinterest and 'major social network' in the same title.. How about no.

potatosalad1 5y ago
Guessing you aren't female? Pinterest is huuuuge with women in their 30s and later (not sure about the younger ones)

asteroidbelt 5y ago

Read: income for these ads are 0.001% (or even more likely these ads significantly drive down user retention) so it is safe to throw them away loudly for free advertisement in popular media.

literallyaduck 5y ago

They show lots of desserts, it seems like the tobacco companies banning advertising for the nicotine patch on their cigarettes TV channel.

atatatat 5y ago

Protecting your market. Just like Walmart selling cheaper diabetes meds.