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I'm not sure I'd buy a car without a single mechanical interior door handle. Sure, there might be a mechanical backup to the electronic door handle. But will

I'm not sure I'd buy a car without a single mechanical interior door handle. Sure, there might be a mechanical backup to the electronic door handle. But will I remember to use it in an emergency?

jliptzin 5y ago
When friends are in my car they almost always use the emergency mechanical handle instead of the electronic one and I always have to remember to show them how to open the door the non-emergency way.
- ncallaway 5y ago
  Is there a downside to using the emergency handle? I'd generally prefer to use that as my standard way of getting out of the car. In the event of an emergency I'd rather have muscle memory for the emergency exit, rather than have to do something unusual.
  - guhidalg 5y ago
    When you press the button, the window rolls down slightly before the door latch is opened. This prevents you from putting stress on the window when you push the door to open it. When you use the handle, the door latch opens and the window rolls down slightly and there’s a larger period of time where you can push the door and put stress on the window. So the danger with using the handle is that you _might_ damage the windows if you aggressively open the door, but the button will not.
    - freeone3000 5y ago
      The 2020 Dodge Challenger had the same problem due to a similar door design. They solved it by causing the mechanical action of the door open lever to also roll down the window slightly, and electronically rolled up the window when the door was closed.
      - userbinator 5y ago
        That sounds like an example of overengineering/making things more complex for little gain.
        freeone3000 5y ago
        The easy solution that literally every other car uses is to have a piece of frame on top of the window as a part of the door. But that doesn't have the same aesthetic!
  - pmorici 5y ago
    Originally they didn't want you to use the manual handle regularly but they added a software feature that rolled the window glass down a bit when you pull the handle and stopped warning not to use it unless it was an emergency.
    - jliptzin 5y ago
      Ah interesting, didn’t know that
pilingual 5y ago
This is a human factors oversight. The emergency handle and button to open the door should be combined. When you put pressure on the button the door opens electronically. Putting a lot of pressure -- as when panicking -- should result in the mechanical lever unlatching the door.
- stretchwithme 5y ago
  I completely agree.
- rasz 5y ago
  Thats how it works in Maserati Quattroporte, both electronic and mechanical actuators are integrated.
- jwalton 5y ago
  At that point, why would you not just have a mechanical latch? What’s the point of the button?
s5300 5y ago
Whatever you do - if you don't already have one, buy a combined window breaker/seatbelt cutter for all of your cars and Velcro it to the side of your chair/bottom of side of center console/wherever you think would be best to have it. Seriously.
- senectus1 5y ago
  these really should be mandated as standard on all cars ever manufactured.
  - s5300 5y ago
    Most people don't know that the headrest (head restraint) can also be used to break a window in several ways. I'd known about this for a while, typically there's just a simple mechanical button you have to depress to remove the headrest to be able to use it in this fashion. Then, for ergonomic reasons, I went to change the headrest orientation one day (I know this is stupid) - and, it turned out, in addition to a mechanical push button to remove, I also had to shove a tiny ass pin punch deep into a hole in a really weird place to fully remove the headrest. This was in a Lincoln, and I'd never seen something as stupid as it in any other car. So much for the idea in the back of my head Id've been able to rely on it if I'd ever needed to break a window. Even more of a reason to just buy the purpose made breaker/cutter, never know what unconventional BS some brands/models may be doing. edit: sorry, speaking in general - Tesla's dont/sports cars tend to not have detachable headrests. Or maybe most newer cars don't in general, haven't looked into it much.
    - cyberge99 5y ago
      Additionally some of those headrest button aren’t easy to click and pull.
      - senectus1 5y ago
        I once had a car that you couldn't take the head rest off without laying the back right down first...
ogjunkyard 5y ago
With a lot of the decisions Tesla's been making lately, I'm not sure I'm going to buy another either. I'm mainly speaking of: - The butterfly steering wheel. - The removal of radar for Autopilot (I'd like to have multiple systems for this, not just cameras/vision). - The removal of steering column stalks (and using the sensors to figure out which direction you want to go). - The door open mechanism changing from handles to whatever this button situation is. I'm sure there will be other stuff, but yeah, may have to cancel my reservation for the Cybertruck.
- yellow_lead 5y ago
  The talk by Karpathy sheds some light on while they removed the radar. TLDW: Radar is inaccurate and buggy for a few seconds, then typically returns to normal. And the sensor fusion is difficult too. FWIW, I still think they're dangerous. I don't want my car to be "production." Engineers were SSHing into tons of cars to apply updates according to an insider thread a while back. https://youtu.be/eOL_rCK59ZI https://youtu.be/eOL_rCK59ZI
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    New firmware update going out restores safety features with vision only. Consumer Reports made the 3 its top pick again due to this. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/tesla-model-3-regains-cr-top-pick-status-iihs-safety-award-a1085318072/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/tesla-model-3-reg... (Tesla Model 3 Regains CR Top Pick Status and IIHS Safety Award; New IIHS testing shows that Tesla’s new camera-based system provides effective automatic emergency braking) > The Tesla Model 3 has regained its status as a Consumer Reports Top Pick after independent tests proved the effectiveness of its new camera-based automatic emergency braking (AEB) and forward collision warning (FCW) systems. > Earlier today, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety released the first evaluations of new Tesla vehicles that use a camera-based system for AEB and FCW. Because of their performance, the Model 3 will once again get a Top Safety Pick+ designation, which is the IIHS’ highest safety award. > “Given the IIHS’ recent evaluations of Tesla’s new camera-based system on its Model 3 and consistent with CR’s integration of IIHS ratings into our recommendations, CR is restoring the car’s Top Pick status,” says Jake Fisher, senior director of CR’s Auto Test Center.
pengaru 5y ago
I recently pulled over to help a Model S driver with a flat. Every doorhandle on the car had a thin zip-tie looped under it because the "present" mechanisms no longer functioned. One had to tug the zip tie to manually force the handle out of its flush position before being able to grasp it. Quality. The poor guy was stuck in the summer desert heat, waiting for a tow with a flat in a ~5000lb luxury sedan too heavy to limp 10 miles to the tire shop without destroying its alloy wheel, that apparently can't manage to carry a spare. I'm pro-EV, but it felt like Teslas are a disaster as I left him in my tiny 90s miata that manages to fit a spare in the trunk, has previously limped that exact route on a flat without destroying its own alloy wheel (~2400lbs), and has perfectly functioning doorhandles still after 320k miles.
- iamtheworstdev 5y ago
  Not defending Tesla here - but most manufacturers no longer include full size spares and many don't even include donuts anymore. The former is reportedly because of weight savings which contributes to fuel savings for their federal requirements. The latter is because donuts were never maintained by owners so they never worked when needed (ie, already deflated or aged beyond safe).
  - mr_toad 5y ago
    In NZ you’ll fail your warrant if you don’t have a functional spare tire.
    - sss111 5y ago
      What's a warrant in NZ, is it like a car fitness check?
      - sourdoughness 5y ago
        Yep
  - clouddrover 5y ago
    And some cars are designed to use run flat tyres which you can drive on for about 80 km after a puncture: https://www.bridgestonetire.com/tread-and-trend/drivers-ed/run-flat-tires https://www.bridgestonetire.com/tread-and-trend/drivers-ed/r...
calyth2018 5y ago
Go to a tool store and find yourself a spring loaded center punch. Something like this: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/dynamic-tools-automatic-centre-punch-5-inch-long/1001552126 https://www.homedepot.ca/product/dynamic-tools-automatic-cen... It should get through the tempered glass at the doors. You can also get an automobile specific glass hammer with seat belt cutter. But yeah, complete lack of mechanical door release is insane.

I'm not sure I'd buy a car without a single mechanical interior door handle. Sure, there might be a mechanical backup to the electronic door handle. But will I remember to use it in an emergency?

jliptzin 5y ago

When friends are in my car they almost always use the emergency mechanical handle instead of the electronic one and I always have to remember to show them how to open the door the non-emergency way.

ncallaway 5y ago
Is there a downside to using the emergency handle? I'd generally prefer to use that as my standard way of getting out of the car. In the event of an emergency I'd rather have muscle memory for the emergency exit, rather than have to do something unusual.
- guhidalg 5y ago
  When you press the button, the window rolls down slightly before the door latch is opened. This prevents you from putting stress on the window when you push the door to open it. When you use the handle, the door latch opens and the window rolls down slightly and there’s a larger period of time where you can push the door and put stress on the window. So the danger with using the handle is that you _might_ damage the windows if you aggressively open the door, but the button will not.
  - freeone3000 5y ago
    The 2020 Dodge Challenger had the same problem due to a similar door design. They solved it by causing the mechanical action of the door open lever to also roll down the window slightly, and electronically rolled up the window when the door was closed.
    - userbinator 5y ago
      That sounds like an example of overengineering/making things more complex for little gain.
      - freeone3000 5y ago
        The easy solution that literally every other car uses is to have a piece of frame on top of the window as a part of the door. But that doesn't have the same aesthetic!
- pmorici 5y ago
  Originally they didn't want you to use the manual handle regularly but they added a software feature that rolled the window glass down a bit when you pull the handle and stopped warning not to use it unless it was an emergency.
  - jliptzin 5y ago
    Ah interesting, didn’t know that

pilingual 5y ago

This is a human factors oversight. The emergency handle and button to open the door should be combined. When you put pressure on the button the door opens electronically. Putting a lot of pressure -- as when panicking -- should result in the mechanical lever unlatching the door.

stretchwithme 5y ago
I completely agree.
rasz 5y ago
Thats how it works in Maserati Quattroporte, both electronic and mechanical actuators are integrated.
jwalton 5y ago
At that point, why would you not just have a mechanical latch? What’s the point of the button?

s5300 5y ago

Whatever you do - if you don't already have one, buy a combined window breaker/seatbelt cutter for all of your cars and Velcro it to the side of your chair/bottom of side of center console/wherever you think would be best to have it. Seriously.

senectus1 5y ago
these really should be mandated as standard on all cars ever manufactured.
- s5300 5y ago
  Most people don't know that the headrest (head restraint) can also be used to break a window in several ways. I'd known about this for a while, typically there's just a simple mechanical button you have to depress to remove the headrest to be able to use it in this fashion. Then, for ergonomic reasons, I went to change the headrest orientation one day (I know this is stupid) - and, it turned out, in addition to a mechanical push button to remove, I also had to shove a tiny ass pin punch deep into a hole in a really weird place to fully remove the headrest. This was in a Lincoln, and I'd never seen something as stupid as it in any other car. So much for the idea in the back of my head Id've been able to rely on it if I'd ever needed to break a window. Even more of a reason to just buy the purpose made breaker/cutter, never know what unconventional BS some brands/models may be doing. edit: sorry, speaking in general - Tesla's dont/sports cars tend to not have detachable headrests. Or maybe most newer cars don't in general, haven't looked into it much.
  - cyberge99 5y ago
    Additionally some of those headrest button aren’t easy to click and pull.
    - senectus1 5y ago
      I once had a car that you couldn't take the head rest off without laying the back right down first...

ogjunkyard 5y ago

With a lot of the decisions Tesla's been making lately, I'm not sure I'm going to buy another either. I'm mainly speaking of: - The butterfly steering wheel. - The removal of radar for Autopilot (I'd like to have multiple systems for this, not just cameras/vision). - The removal of steering column stalks (and using the sensors to figure out which direction you want to go). - The door open mechanism changing from handles to whatever this button situation is. I'm sure there will be other stuff, but yeah, may have to cancel my reservation for the Cybertruck.

yellow_lead 5y ago
The talk by Karpathy sheds some light on while they removed the radar. TLDW: Radar is inaccurate and buggy for a few seconds, then typically returns to normal. And the sensor fusion is difficult too. FWIW, I still think they're dangerous. I don't want my car to be "production." Engineers were SSHing into tons of cars to apply updates according to an insider thread a while back. https://youtu.be/eOL_rCK59ZI https://youtu.be/eOL_rCK59ZI
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  New firmware update going out restores safety features with vision only. Consumer Reports made the 3 its top pick again due to this. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/tesla-model-3-regains-cr-top-pick-status-iihs-safety-award-a1085318072/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/tesla-model-3-reg... (Tesla Model 3 Regains CR Top Pick Status and IIHS Safety Award; New IIHS testing shows that Tesla’s new camera-based system provides effective automatic emergency braking) > The Tesla Model 3 has regained its status as a Consumer Reports Top Pick after independent tests proved the effectiveness of its new camera-based automatic emergency braking (AEB) and forward collision warning (FCW) systems. > Earlier today, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety released the first evaluations of new Tesla vehicles that use a camera-based system for AEB and FCW. Because of their performance, the Model 3 will once again get a Top Safety Pick+ designation, which is the IIHS’ highest safety award. > “Given the IIHS’ recent evaluations of Tesla’s new camera-based system on its Model 3 and consistent with CR’s integration of IIHS ratings into our recommendations, CR is restoring the car’s Top Pick status,” says Jake Fisher, senior director of CR’s Auto Test Center.

pengaru 5y ago

I recently pulled over to help a Model S driver with a flat. Every doorhandle on the car had a thin zip-tie looped under it because the "present" mechanisms no longer functioned. One had to tug the zip tie to manually force the handle out of its flush position before being able to grasp it. Quality. The poor guy was stuck in the summer desert heat, waiting for a tow with a flat in a ~5000lb luxury sedan too heavy to limp 10 miles to the tire shop without destroying its alloy wheel, that apparently can't manage to carry a spare. I'm pro-EV, but it felt like Teslas are a disaster as I left him in my tiny 90s miata that manages to fit a spare in the trunk, has previously limped that exact route on a flat without destroying its own alloy wheel (~2400lbs), and has perfectly functioning doorhandles still after 320k miles.

iamtheworstdev 5y ago
Not defending Tesla here - but most manufacturers no longer include full size spares and many don't even include donuts anymore. The former is reportedly because of weight savings which contributes to fuel savings for their federal requirements. The latter is because donuts were never maintained by owners so they never worked when needed (ie, already deflated or aged beyond safe).
- mr_toad 5y ago
  In NZ you’ll fail your warrant if you don’t have a functional spare tire.
  - sss111 5y ago
    What's a warrant in NZ, is it like a car fitness check?
    - sourdoughness 5y ago
      Yep
- clouddrover 5y ago
  And some cars are designed to use run flat tyres which you can drive on for about 80 km after a puncture: https://www.bridgestonetire.com/tread-and-trend/drivers-ed/run-flat-tires https://www.bridgestonetire.com/tread-and-trend/drivers-ed/r...

calyth2018 5y ago

Go to a tool store and find yourself a spring loaded center punch. Something like this: https://www.homedepot.ca/product/dynamic-tools-automatic-centre-punch-5-inch-long/1001552126 https://www.homedepot.ca/product/dynamic-tools-automatic-cen... It should get through the tempered glass at the doors. You can also get an automobile specific glass hammer with seat belt cutter. But yeah, complete lack of mechanical door release is insane.