4 ms·

Show HN: Laminated Bus Schedules

94 points by ChrisNorstrom 15y ago

rmason 15y ago
Great idea but what about graffiti? In most major East coast cities those schedules wouldn't be around for two weeks before getting tagged.
petercooper 15y ago
An interesting little project! I often wonder how different neighborhoods would be if people did beneficial things like this routinely without either relying on, or being held back by, civic institutions or businesses. For example, the UK had a "big freeze" in November and December of last year. I cleared the ice from the sidewalk outside our house and kept it salted. No-one else on the walk into town did and it was a death-trap walk. If everyone else had spent 10 minutes a day doing their bit, walking around would have remained pleasant.
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  This is one of the benefits of living in a highly religious area. The LDS church is big on service projects, so church members are out on a regular basis from the age of eight and up. Givwen the high density of Mormons here, that gives us the net effect you are speaking of. On the ice inparticular, In the US, you could be liable if you don't keep it clean so it often is, but I can't stand letting ice accumulate on the cement anyway. My nerd forces me to clear all the way to the edge, pile appropriately so wind can't blow it back on the cement, etc.
- eru 15y ago
  In Germany you would be legally obliged to keep the pavement outside your house ice and snow free.
  - rjsw 15y ago
    Same in France.
  - iaskwhy 15y ago
    South European here (thus I have no idea what it's like to deal with ice)! So what happens if you go on holidays for a couple of days?
    - fhars 15y ago
      That's your problem, should have planned better.
      - iaskwhy 15y ago
        I don't get it. Are you the owner of the sidewalk?
        fhars 15y ago
        No, but just like you have to pay property taxes, you have to keep the sidewalk adjacent to your lot free of ice and snow.
        iaskwhy 15y ago
        I guess it would never work like that around here...
  - epochwolf 15y ago
    Also true of Green Bay, WI. (It may be a state instead of a local ordnance. I'm not sure.)
  - petercooper 15y ago
    In the UK, it's a different ball game. A BBC story from 2004, "Clearing snow 'can get you sued'": http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3453039.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3453039.stm However, in recent months the government has noted that this was all a bit silly and now suggests that you won't get into trouble if you do the job properly. Still, a lot of FUD about this whole topic so people tend to just not bother.
mmatey 15y ago
Nice project! Just needs a little bit of design and color? Color coding the North bound and South bound grids (From what I can see?) would be helpful.
frankdenbow 15y ago
Cool! In NYC at many stops this is already there, but I can see how this is useful outside of those places.
- ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
  Oh, I'm curious, are they laminated and attached like mine or are they different. How did they do it?
almost 15y ago
Well done for doing something to make the world around you a little better. If only everyone did little things like this how much better the world would be. Im very supprised the bus companies dont do tgis though! Here in the UK nearly all bus stops have the schedules displayed, its very common to see route maps though. I would imagine the bus system wpuld be next to useless without them! Here in brighton we even have electronic signs which show the time to the next bus, theyre pretty useful!
- rjh29 15y ago
  They're rolling them out in Bath too. Very useful!
- AndrewDucker 15y ago
  Here in Edinburgh I can get the bus times on my phone - there are iOs and Android apps, plus a mobile and desktop website. http://www.mybustracker.co.uk/ http://www.mybustracker.co.uk/ It's incredibly handy, particularly as there are two bus stops I can take to get me to work, so I check the times as I'm leaving home and head to the one that's coming sooner.
  - almost 15y ago
    That sounds very useful. Theres a not-very-good web interface here. I keep meaning to write a scraper and use it to present the data in a more web and people friendly form.
Mz 15y ago
I would be really interested to see some kind of follow-up data on this in terms of did it actually promote bus use. I love this but I wonder if it genuinely accomplished something. EDIT: Or I would also be interested if someone posted comparison data for places that already have this versus those that don't. I am seeing some anecdotal comments here that some places already do this "officially" rather than as a guerrilla tactic.
- ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
  The KNOWN immediate benefit is financial and environmental. People won't need to take as many bus schedules and the company won't need to waste money printing as many.
  - Mz 15y ago
    Thank you. That had not occurred to me.
aw3c2 15y ago
All over Germany the companies do this. Almost always there is also a network map and other information. I am flabbergasted at the state of public transport in your vicinity. How were you supposed to use it conveniently without that information prominently displayed.
- Aqua_Geek 15y ago
  I am flabbergasted at the state of public transport in your vicinity. Sadly, I think this is pretty typical of the state of public transit across the US. Subway systems tend to be better - maps, when the next train arrives, etc. But the bus systems have little to no info.
  - _delirium 15y ago
    That's true in much of Europe also, unfortunately (I don't know about Germany, but I can believe it's better). In France, for example, the rail system is well signposted, but route and timetable information about city buses is very inconsistent. Even true in usually-well-organized Denmark, which has a super-awesome metro, but out of date and difficult to read information at bus stops.
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  Public transport is very different in the US than in Europe, and a large part of the reason is density. If that were the only reason, I think we could solve that, but unfortunately, a large percentage of Americans' attitude is public transport is for poor people, especially off the eastern seaboard. I was alway hugely impressed with the public transport in Europe. Utah has pretty good transport (this project wouldn't be necessary, for example), but it is still difficult to use if you aren't either traveling around or to the downtown Salt Lake City area or have a lot of time you are willing to drop on the commute.
- eru 15y ago
  Though inexplicable, there's actually a law dating from 1934 against long distance travel by bus on a regular schedule in Germany.
terhechte 15y ago
Great Idea. These kind of laminated bus schedules are normal all over Germany, so it's easy here to find the right bus and to understand where it goes. But whenever I'm in the states (and that's rather frequently) I'm always grateful about Google Maps on my iPhone because it actually gives me a chance to use U.S public transit. Otherwise I'd probably end up in dark nowhere and never ever get back home since there is no information whatsoever at the bus stops. I was always wondering why you guys had no maps at the bus stops.
djangodjango 15y ago
Next step: Get the buses to actually follow the schedules.
- viraptor 15y ago
  I think that's pretty much unrealistic, considering buses are affected by things out of driver's control. However you can still improve the situation by tracking the buses and providing a live estimation instead of the static schedule. So, next step: get the schedules to follow the buses?
  - fhars 15y ago
    I expect busses to be mostly on time, and most of the time they are. It's not that the evening rush hour comes as a surprise every day, so it can be accomodated in the schedule. Of course, on really dense lines, time tables may just look like 16 5 minutes 17 all 3 to 5 minutes 18 all 5 to 7 minutes 19 08 18 28 38 48 58 ... And on the main bus stops there are the real time displays you want: http://www.flickr.com/photos/christoph_bellin/5305848773/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/christoph_bellin/5305848773/
sschueller 15y ago
In Switzerland every stop has something like this posted: http://online.fahrplaninfo.zvv.ch/pdf/01/ah_01011a/ah_01011a_j11_a_03039.pdf http://online.fahrplaninfo.zvv.ch/pdf/01/ah_01011a/ah_01011a... Sometimes there is even an electronic sign which states how many minutes until the next bus,tram,train etc. Also almost all have several of these inside to tell you where you are: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3203/3077018448_0b2162659f.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3203/3077018448_0b2162659f.jp...
tnorthcutt 15y ago
Great project. Hopefully you're able to collaborate with the metro department to get more stuff like this done. The swagging tool and bolt cutter cost me $42.37 but it’s ok I returned them later. I was really disappointed to read this.
- ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
  lol. Don't worry I grabbed the ones that were used and returned over and over and over.
- icebraining 15y ago
  Me too, I thought tool libraries were common in the 'States? Luckily he didn't have to pay to use them only for a couple of hours.
  - ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
    What's a tool library? If it were something that gets damaged in use then yes I'd buy it, but a swagging tool can't get dull, and the bolt cutters I used to cut cable wire like butter didn't dull either. The closet entrepreneur within me would never allow myself to buy a tool I only need to use once. Gotta make little cuts to save money here and there, capitalist style.
    - icebraining 15y ago
      >What's a tool library? A library, for tools instead of books. Like Vancouver's: http://www.granvilleonline.ca/home-and-garden/home/vancouver-tool-library-takes-storage-problem-out-home-renovations http://www.granvilleonline.ca/home-and-garden/home/vancouver...
jsavimbi 15y ago
Very nice; I like it. In Boston, they'd send a fella 'round to cut your schedules down. Public workers don't like being shown up.
petercooper 15y ago
I just remembered a project along similar lines to this. A guy created a 'guerrilla' sign for a freeway in LA to reduce confusion amongst drivers: http://www.good.is/post/the-fake-freeway-sign-that-became-a-real-public-service/ http://www.good.is/post/the-fake-freeway-sign-that-became-a-...
- ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
  Yes, I remember him. He's my hero.
warwick 15y ago
Are you planning on maintaining these? In my city the route timings change depending on school schedules and time of year, so the transit schedule's that are posted at stops have to be swapped out three or four times a year.
- ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
  My mom works at Metro, for popular routes the schedules don't change for years and years.
  - warwick 15y ago
    That's superb then. My big concern for any project like this is that maintenance and upkeep costs end up outstripping the initial layout by a considerable amount.
ben1040 15y ago
I saw this post and thought "Man, I should do this in my town," because my local transit authority makes no effort at making it easy for people to take the bus. Then I looked at the route names/numbers and realized you are in my town! Thank you for making my part of the world better. My coworkers and I were just talking about how difficult it is to navigate the public transit system here if you don't have a smartphone with Google Transit. St. Louis is not like Chicago, NYC, or SF where people of all walks of life take public transit to work, either because it's highly convenient or because parking costs more than their car payment. Transit here is not convenient and the people who rely on the bus here are the ones who can't afford a smartphone with Google Transit, let alone a car payment.
jshort 15y ago
As a student at the University of Waterloo taking the bus is standard. You are able to text the bus stop number to the bus company number and then it replies with when the next 3 (ish) buses are coming. I wish you were able to find out more information then just when the next few buses are coming like when is a bus coming at 4 o'clock, or some real time data about buses running late. No smartphone is required which is a bonus as it is for public transit, and on a side note I like that you can text Google and get search results texted back to you.
cdcarter 15y ago
This is a fantastic idea, my city has similarly bad bus schedule postings. I'd love to see some usability studies on what a bus schedule should look like though. Usually the actual schedule design is just as awful as the way it is posted. Also, using wire rope may have been a bit overkill, but I always support people informing the world of swaging tools.
4J7z0Fgt63dTZbs 15y ago
...if you think laminating is worth $10 per each sleeve, you should probably acquire the skill for yourself - it will pay for itself in long term. descent laminator costs <50 USD.

94 points by ChrisNorstrom 15y ago

Great idea but what about graffiti? In most major East coast cities those schedules wouldn't be around for two weeks before getting tagged.

petercooper 15y ago

An interesting little project! I often wonder how different neighborhoods would be if people did beneficial things like this routinely without either relying on, or being held back by, civic institutions or businesses. For example, the UK had a "big freeze" in November and December of last year. I cleared the ice from the sidewalk outside our house and kept it salted. No-one else on the walk into town did and it was a death-trap walk. If everyone else had spent 10 minutes a day doing their bit, walking around would have remained pleasant.

SoftwareMaven 15y ago
This is one of the benefits of living in a highly religious area. The LDS church is big on service projects, so church members are out on a regular basis from the age of eight and up. Givwen the high density of Mormons here, that gives us the net effect you are speaking of. On the ice inparticular, In the US, you could be liable if you don't keep it clean so it often is, but I can't stand letting ice accumulate on the cement anyway. My nerd forces me to clear all the way to the edge, pile appropriately so wind can't blow it back on the cement, etc.
eru 15y ago
In Germany you would be legally obliged to keep the pavement outside your house ice and snow free.
- rjsw 15y ago
  Same in France.
- iaskwhy 15y ago
  South European here (thus I have no idea what it's like to deal with ice)! So what happens if you go on holidays for a couple of days?
  - fhars 15y ago
    That's your problem, should have planned better.
    - iaskwhy 15y ago
      I don't get it. Are you the owner of the sidewalk?
      - fhars 15y ago
        No, but just like you have to pay property taxes, you have to keep the sidewalk adjacent to your lot free of ice and snow.
        iaskwhy 15y ago
        I guess it would never work like that around here...
- epochwolf 15y ago
  Also true of Green Bay, WI. (It may be a state instead of a local ordnance. I'm not sure.)
- petercooper 15y ago
  In the UK, it's a different ball game. A BBC story from 2004, "Clearing snow 'can get you sued'": http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3453039.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3453039.stm However, in recent months the government has noted that this was all a bit silly and now suggests that you won't get into trouble if you do the job properly. Still, a lot of FUD about this whole topic so people tend to just not bother.

mmatey 15y ago

Nice project! Just needs a little bit of design and color? Color coding the North bound and South bound grids (From what I can see?) would be helpful.

frankdenbow 15y ago

Cool! In NYC at many stops this is already there, but I can see how this is useful outside of those places.

ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
Oh, I'm curious, are they laminated and attached like mine or are they different. How did they do it?

almost 15y ago

Well done for doing something to make the world around you a little better. If only everyone did little things like this how much better the world would be. Im very supprised the bus companies dont do tgis though! Here in the UK nearly all bus stops have the schedules displayed, its very common to see route maps though. I would imagine the bus system wpuld be next to useless without them! Here in brighton we even have electronic signs which show the time to the next bus, theyre pretty useful!

rjh29 15y ago
They're rolling them out in Bath too. Very useful!
AndrewDucker 15y ago
Here in Edinburgh I can get the bus times on my phone - there are iOs and Android apps, plus a mobile and desktop website. http://www.mybustracker.co.uk/ http://www.mybustracker.co.uk/ It's incredibly handy, particularly as there are two bus stops I can take to get me to work, so I check the times as I'm leaving home and head to the one that's coming sooner.
- almost 15y ago
  That sounds very useful. Theres a not-very-good web interface here. I keep meaning to write a scraper and use it to present the data in a more web and people friendly form.

Mz 15y ago

I would be really interested to see some kind of follow-up data on this in terms of did it actually promote bus use. I love this but I wonder if it genuinely accomplished something. EDIT: Or I would also be interested if someone posted comparison data for places that already have this versus those that don't. I am seeing some anecdotal comments here that some places already do this "officially" rather than as a guerrilla tactic.

ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
The KNOWN immediate benefit is financial and environmental. People won't need to take as many bus schedules and the company won't need to waste money printing as many.
- Mz 15y ago
  Thank you. That had not occurred to me.

aw3c2 15y ago

All over Germany the companies do this. Almost always there is also a network map and other information. I am flabbergasted at the state of public transport in your vicinity. How were you supposed to use it conveniently without that information prominently displayed.

Aqua_Geek 15y ago
I am flabbergasted at the state of public transport in your vicinity. Sadly, I think this is pretty typical of the state of public transit across the US. Subway systems tend to be better - maps, when the next train arrives, etc. But the bus systems have little to no info.
- _delirium 15y ago
  That's true in much of Europe also, unfortunately (I don't know about Germany, but I can believe it's better). In France, for example, the rail system is well signposted, but route and timetable information about city buses is very inconsistent. Even true in usually-well-organized Denmark, which has a super-awesome metro, but out of date and difficult to read information at bus stops.
SoftwareMaven 15y ago
Public transport is very different in the US than in Europe, and a large part of the reason is density. If that were the only reason, I think we could solve that, but unfortunately, a large percentage of Americans' attitude is public transport is for poor people, especially off the eastern seaboard. I was alway hugely impressed with the public transport in Europe. Utah has pretty good transport (this project wouldn't be necessary, for example), but it is still difficult to use if you aren't either traveling around or to the downtown Salt Lake City area or have a lot of time you are willing to drop on the commute.
eru 15y ago
Though inexplicable, there's actually a law dating from 1934 against long distance travel by bus on a regular schedule in Germany.

terhechte 15y ago

Great Idea. These kind of laminated bus schedules are normal all over Germany, so it's easy here to find the right bus and to understand where it goes. But whenever I'm in the states (and that's rather frequently) I'm always grateful about Google Maps on my iPhone because it actually gives me a chance to use U.S public transit. Otherwise I'd probably end up in dark nowhere and never ever get back home since there is no information whatsoever at the bus stops. I was always wondering why you guys had no maps at the bus stops.

djangodjango 15y ago

Next step: Get the buses to actually follow the schedules.

viraptor 15y ago
I think that's pretty much unrealistic, considering buses are affected by things out of driver's control. However you can still improve the situation by tracking the buses and providing a live estimation instead of the static schedule. So, next step: get the schedules to follow the buses?
- fhars 15y ago
  I expect busses to be mostly on time, and most of the time they are. It's not that the evening rush hour comes as a surprise every day, so it can be accomodated in the schedule. Of course, on really dense lines, time tables may just look like 16 5 minutes 17 all 3 to 5 minutes 18 all 5 to 7 minutes 19 08 18 28 38 48 58 ... And on the main bus stops there are the real time displays you want: http://www.flickr.com/photos/christoph_bellin/5305848773/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/christoph_bellin/5305848773/

sschueller 15y ago

In Switzerland every stop has something like this posted: http://online.fahrplaninfo.zvv.ch/pdf/01/ah_01011a/ah_01011a_j11_a_03039.pdf http://online.fahrplaninfo.zvv.ch/pdf/01/ah_01011a/ah_01011a... Sometimes there is even an electronic sign which states how many minutes until the next bus,tram,train etc. Also almost all have several of these inside to tell you where you are: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3203/3077018448_0b2162659f.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3203/3077018448_0b2162659f.jp...

tnorthcutt 15y ago

Great project. Hopefully you're able to collaborate with the metro department to get more stuff like this done. The swagging tool and bolt cutter cost me $42.37 but it’s ok I returned them later. I was really disappointed to read this.

ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
lol. Don't worry I grabbed the ones that were used and returned over and over and over.
icebraining 15y ago
Me too, I thought tool libraries were common in the 'States? Luckily he didn't have to pay to use them only for a couple of hours.
- ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
  What's a tool library? If it were something that gets damaged in use then yes I'd buy it, but a swagging tool can't get dull, and the bolt cutters I used to cut cable wire like butter didn't dull either. The closet entrepreneur within me would never allow myself to buy a tool I only need to use once. Gotta make little cuts to save money here and there, capitalist style.
  - icebraining 15y ago
    >What's a tool library? A library, for tools instead of books. Like Vancouver's: http://www.granvilleonline.ca/home-and-garden/home/vancouver-tool-library-takes-storage-problem-out-home-renovations http://www.granvilleonline.ca/home-and-garden/home/vancouver...

jsavimbi 15y ago

Very nice; I like it. In Boston, they'd send a fella 'round to cut your schedules down. Public workers don't like being shown up.

petercooper 15y ago

I just remembered a project along similar lines to this. A guy created a 'guerrilla' sign for a freeway in LA to reduce confusion amongst drivers: http://www.good.is/post/the-fake-freeway-sign-that-became-a-real-public-service/ http://www.good.is/post/the-fake-freeway-sign-that-became-a-...

ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
Yes, I remember him. He's my hero.

warwick 15y ago

Are you planning on maintaining these? In my city the route timings change depending on school schedules and time of year, so the transit schedule's that are posted at stops have to be swapped out three or four times a year.

ChrisNorstrom 15y ago
My mom works at Metro, for popular routes the schedules don't change for years and years.
- warwick 15y ago
  That's superb then. My big concern for any project like this is that maintenance and upkeep costs end up outstripping the initial layout by a considerable amount.

ben1040 15y ago

I saw this post and thought "Man, I should do this in my town," because my local transit authority makes no effort at making it easy for people to take the bus. Then I looked at the route names/numbers and realized you are in my town! Thank you for making my part of the world better. My coworkers and I were just talking about how difficult it is to navigate the public transit system here if you don't have a smartphone with Google Transit. St. Louis is not like Chicago, NYC, or SF where people of all walks of life take public transit to work, either because it's highly convenient or because parking costs more than their car payment. Transit here is not convenient and the people who rely on the bus here are the ones who can't afford a smartphone with Google Transit, let alone a car payment.

jshort 15y ago

As a student at the University of Waterloo taking the bus is standard. You are able to text the bus stop number to the bus company number and then it replies with when the next 3 (ish) buses are coming. I wish you were able to find out more information then just when the next few buses are coming like when is a bus coming at 4 o'clock, or some real time data about buses running late. No smartphone is required which is a bonus as it is for public transit, and on a side note I like that you can text Google and get search results texted back to you.

cdcarter 15y ago

This is a fantastic idea, my city has similarly bad bus schedule postings. I'd love to see some usability studies on what a bus schedule should look like though. Usually the actual schedule design is just as awful as the way it is posted. Also, using wire rope may have been a bit overkill, but I always support people informing the world of swaging tools.

4J7z0Fgt63dTZbs 15y ago

...if you think laminating is worth $10 per each sleeve, you should probably acquire the skill for yourself - it will pay for itself in long term. descent laminator costs <50 USD.