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Ahh, hobbyking. I used to order RC and electronics stuff from them, back before off the shelf drones became common enough that regulations ramped way up. Their

Ahh, hobbyking. I used to order RC and electronics stuff from them, back before off the shelf drones became common enough that regulations ramped way up. Their checkout pipeline used to have a drop-down box for what percent of the orders value to declare on the customs documents. IIRC, the default value was 30%... It was also always interesting seeing what machinations they were using when orders of LiPo batteries would get shipped. I had a very large battery order for a workshop I ran that was shipped from HK to the west coast via Fiji post - and by the postal tracking, took the long way around, and showed up with a surprising lack of stickers related to the contents. They still have the best battery searcher in the business if you need to find pouch cells with specific dimensions. Not surprised that regulators have been catching up with them.

Syonyk 5y ago
> ...and showed up with a surprising lack of stickers related to the contents. Yeah... screw 'em if they're doing that. I've never ordered from them, because I really, really do not like pouch cells (pouch LiCoO2 is terrifying). I've done a lot of work with lithium packs, mostly 18650s, and was the sole supplier of rebuilt BionX ebike battery packs in North America for a few years until some other people got their rears in gear and undercut me (I was so tired of building packs by the end...). But I shipped ground. Period. The hazmat requirements for 300+Wh packs were pretty stiff, and I met them. The UPS guy out here knew me as "the battery guy," and I had to explain to any sub on the route that, yes, this was legit, yes, I have all the paperwork right there, yes, I'm registered... look, just call base, ask about "the battery guy," they'll know who it is. And since I shipped a lot to Canada, I filled out my customs forms properly, with actual value. I had a few people ask me about some "creative valuation," and... nope. Not going to screw around when sending hazmat internationally. I got out of it partly because people undercut me, partly because the requirements for shipping lithium were getting ever more strict. I'll do stuff locally now, but I deliberately didn't renew my hazmat shipping training.
- bombcar 5y ago
  Oh my it’s the battery guy! Shipping batteries is why I stopped kitbreaking Milwaukee sets from Home Depot. Too complicated.
  - DaveExeter 5y ago
    You can't just ship them ground?
    - bombcar 5y ago
      Even ground includes labeling requirements and such. And it gets complicated knowing what to put. The reality is UPS gives no shots, the USPS is a bit stricter.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 5y ago
  Not that I advocate it, but I can see why they are trying to skirt the rules. It’s tough now as a consumer to just order LiPos for a reasonable price and trust that they aren’t going to be a risk of catching on fire. HobbyKing is one of the few LiPo vendors right now that have managed to achieve trustworthy B2C LiPo batteries at a reasonable price point. I’m guessing they are really trying to maintain that position.
  - Syonyk 5y ago
    It sucks more when your unlabeled, poorly packed batteries catch fire and take down cargo planes. It sucks even more when they take down passenger airlines, because a lot of mail is shipped in the bellies of passenger flights - and if it's not labeled as prohibited for air transport, you have no idea how it gets from A to B. Different carriers have different regulations, and you can legally ship small lithium cells (at least on some carriers) without a lot of restrictions. There are also different restrictions for "batteries in equipment" versus bare packs or cells. But places like Hobby King tend to just shove stuff in a box and hope it doesn't catch fire. The FAA keeps a list... https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/resources/lithium_batteries/media/Battery_incident_chart.pdf https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/resources/lithium_batteries/media... They're really not something to treat as casually as an awful lot of people treat them. :/
    - kortilla 5y ago
      > It sucks even more when they take down passenger airlines They haven’t ever been known to “take down” a.k.a crash a passenger airline: https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/resources/lithium_batteries/media/Battery_incident_chart.pdf https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/resources/lithium_batteries/media...
      - Syonyk 5y ago
        The South Africa 295 crash was, at least possibly, a cargo fire from lithium batteries - though they never did figure out exactly what caused it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Airways_Flight_295 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Airways_Flight_2... My point there is mostly that USPS mail and such is carried on passenger flights, and I have a very real problem with unlabeled scrap grade lithium cells being carried without proper markings on anything with passengers, which is exactly what Hobby King's behaviors lead to. That stuff, if it goes by air at all (I'd argue it probably shouldn't), should go by cargo aircraft only.

Syonyk 5y ago

> ...and showed up with a surprising lack of stickers related to the contents. Yeah... screw 'em if they're doing that. I've never ordered from them, because I really, really do not like pouch cells (pouch LiCoO2 is terrifying). I've done a lot of work with lithium packs, mostly 18650s, and was the sole supplier of rebuilt BionX ebike battery packs in North America for a few years until some other people got their rears in gear and undercut me (I was so tired of building packs by the end...). But I shipped ground. Period. The hazmat requirements for 300+Wh packs were pretty stiff, and I met them. The UPS guy out here knew me as "the battery guy," and I had to explain to any sub on the route that, yes, this was legit, yes, I have all the paperwork right there, yes, I'm registered... look, just call base, ask about "the battery guy," they'll know who it is. And since I shipped a lot to Canada, I filled out my customs forms properly, with actual value. I had a few people ask me about some "creative valuation," and... nope. Not going to screw around when sending hazmat internationally. I got out of it partly because people undercut me, partly because the requirements for shipping lithium were getting ever more strict. I'll do stuff locally now, but I deliberately didn't renew my hazmat shipping training.

bombcar 5y ago
Oh my it’s the battery guy! Shipping batteries is why I stopped kitbreaking Milwaukee sets from Home Depot. Too complicated.
- DaveExeter 5y ago
  You can't just ship them ground?
  - bombcar 5y ago
    Even ground includes labeling requirements and such. And it gets complicated knowing what to put. The reality is UPS gives no shots, the USPS is a bit stricter.
SOLAR_FIELDS 5y ago
Not that I advocate it, but I can see why they are trying to skirt the rules. It’s tough now as a consumer to just order LiPos for a reasonable price and trust that they aren’t going to be a risk of catching on fire. HobbyKing is one of the few LiPo vendors right now that have managed to achieve trustworthy B2C LiPo batteries at a reasonable price point. I’m guessing they are really trying to maintain that position.
- Syonyk 5y ago
  It sucks more when your unlabeled, poorly packed batteries catch fire and take down cargo planes. It sucks even more when they take down passenger airlines, because a lot of mail is shipped in the bellies of passenger flights - and if it's not labeled as prohibited for air transport, you have no idea how it gets from A to B. Different carriers have different regulations, and you can legally ship small lithium cells (at least on some carriers) without a lot of restrictions. There are also different restrictions for "batteries in equipment" versus bare packs or cells. But places like Hobby King tend to just shove stuff in a box and hope it doesn't catch fire. The FAA keeps a list... https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/resources/lithium_batteries/media/Battery_incident_chart.pdf https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/resources/lithium_batteries/media... They're really not something to treat as casually as an awful lot of people treat them. :/
  - kortilla 5y ago
    > It sucks even more when they take down passenger airlines They haven’t ever been known to “take down” a.k.a crash a passenger airline: https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/resources/lithium_batteries/media/Battery_incident_chart.pdf https://www.faa.gov/hazmat/resources/lithium_batteries/media...
    - Syonyk 5y ago
      The South Africa 295 crash was, at least possibly, a cargo fire from lithium batteries - though they never did figure out exactly what caused it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Airways_Flight_295 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Airways_Flight_2... My point there is mostly that USPS mail and such is carried on passenger flights, and I have a very real problem with unlabeled scrap grade lithium cells being carried without proper markings on anything with passengers, which is exactly what Hobby King's behaviors lead to. That stuff, if it goes by air at all (I'd argue it probably shouldn't), should go by cargo aircraft only.