4 ms·

Just because it might be "in bad faith" doesn't make the argument wrong. A lot of subsidies are being pumped into EVs on the assumption that they're a net benef

Just because it might be "in bad faith" doesn't make the argument wrong. A lot of subsidies are being pumped into EVs on the assumption that they're a net benefit to CO2 goals. If they are not, or if it is only true for specific models, then that needs to be accounted for. > If a Tesla doesn’t amortize by some napkin analysis, neither would an electric bus That's not a given, these are two quite different vehicles with quite different usage scenarios. A Tesla might not actually get a lot of mileage in its lifetime, whereas a commercial bus would get as much mileage as possible. Having said that, even if it were true that electric buses also are a net negative on emissions, then the obvious answer would be that we shouldn't subsidize those either.

p1necone 5y ago
The argument is also just plain wrong though. Even if 100% of the power generation is from coal, it's still more efficient compared to individual petrol engines in cars. Large stationary constant (ish) speed fossil fuel generators will be more efficient than a bunch of little non constant speed petrol engines in cars.
- incrudible 5y ago
  That's not the argument though. Batteries require a lot of resources to produce, to the point where production of an EV can create more emissions than a comparable gasoline vehicle. If such an EV then fails to offset these emissions during its lifetime, it was a net negative.
  - njarboe 5y ago
    Tesla's goal is to build cars that last for a million miles. Electric motor technology is already there and they are also working on making the other parts of the car last a similar length of time. Also notice how the new model S looks very similar to the old model S. Having old cars look like the newer version is also part of getting people to use cars for a million miles/
    - incrudible 5y ago
      > Tesla's goal is to build cars that last for a million miles. The average American drives 13,500 miles per year. Are you sure their goal is to have our grandchildren drive our old Teslas?
      - njarboe 5y ago
        If they get automatic driving, you will be able to rent them out via a Uber like service (although I think Tesla's terms of service for their full self driving software package states you can only rent out your car using a system owned by Tesla). I'm sure a large number of people would do this while they were at work or overnight. Especially if it covered most of the cost of owning the car. With this scenario you could get to a million mile in a decade pretty easily. PS. I'd love to own my grandparent's GTO, Cadallics, etc..
- lucb1e 5y ago
  Also after transmission loss, storage loss, losing the 'free' cabin heat and everything? I was under the impression it would at best be a wash. Regardless, I see your point, and it's easier to switch one big coal plant than try to convince a million people to buy a new car. Better get those cars trickled in and work on the generation side in parallel. Just curious if this fun fact is really true.

p1necone 5y ago

The argument is also just plain wrong though. Even if 100% of the power generation is from coal, it's still more efficient compared to individual petrol engines in cars. Large stationary constant (ish) speed fossil fuel generators will be more efficient than a bunch of little non constant speed petrol engines in cars.

incrudible 5y ago
That's not the argument though. Batteries require a lot of resources to produce, to the point where production of an EV can create more emissions than a comparable gasoline vehicle. If such an EV then fails to offset these emissions during its lifetime, it was a net negative.
- njarboe 5y ago
  Tesla's goal is to build cars that last for a million miles. Electric motor technology is already there and they are also working on making the other parts of the car last a similar length of time. Also notice how the new model S looks very similar to the old model S. Having old cars look like the newer version is also part of getting people to use cars for a million miles/
  - incrudible 5y ago
    > Tesla's goal is to build cars that last for a million miles. The average American drives 13,500 miles per year. Are you sure their goal is to have our grandchildren drive our old Teslas?
    - njarboe 5y ago
      If they get automatic driving, you will be able to rent them out via a Uber like service (although I think Tesla's terms of service for their full self driving software package states you can only rent out your car using a system owned by Tesla). I'm sure a large number of people would do this while they were at work or overnight. Especially if it covered most of the cost of owning the car. With this scenario you could get to a million mile in a decade pretty easily. PS. I'd love to own my grandparent's GTO, Cadallics, etc..
lucb1e 5y ago
Also after transmission loss, storage loss, losing the 'free' cabin heat and everything? I was under the impression it would at best be a wash. Regardless, I see your point, and it's easier to switch one big coal plant than try to convince a million people to buy a new car. Better get those cars trickled in and work on the generation side in parallel. Just curious if this fun fact is really true.