4 ms·

In the end the discussion about the speed limit is less about the environment but more about human safety as a much higher degree of accidents with high speeds

In the end the discussion about the speed limit is less about the environment but more about human safety as a much higher degree of accidents with high speeds end deadly. Also from personal experience with some of the few highways in Germany without tempo limit ("most" have limits): If there is a truck going with ~80 km/h which is taken over by a bus going ~100 km/h and you take that over with 150km/h but there is nearly an accident because someone thinks it's a good idea to randomly accelerate to around 230 km/h or so on a not so empty highway you start wondering who thought that no tempo limit was a good idea.

pintxo 5y ago
Obviously higher speed translates into higher risk. But given that less than 10% of all accidents resulting in bodily injuries happen on Autobahns, it looks like there are for more important factors to consider than speed alone. https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Verkehrsunfaelle/Tabellen/polizeilich-erfasste-unfaelle.html;jsessionid=80FF932D42A4B51DDA631B4F6CEB403B.live722 https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Verkeh...
- dathinab 5y ago
  Just because other parts of the streets are "less safe" (in given statistics) doesn't mean you can't or should not improve the situations in other places if it's simple, straight forward and with little drawbacks. (Which is what IMHO it the more important part in the discussion, is a cap of 130 km/h to low? Should it be 160 km/h?) As a side note the statistics about accidents is not the relevant one in this discussion. The relevant on would be deadly accidents on highway vs. city vs. country side as well as deadly accidents on highway involving speeds > 130km/h and not involving speeds > 130 km/h. And yes, if we look at deadly accidents of PKWs (~= normal car, i.e. not bus, truck, bike, etc.) then our country side streets are basically death traps.. But then if we consider they in Germany country side streets are often: Less maintained, seamed with trees, areas where wild animals might cross, used by drunk people going home at 3am, used by farming vehicles, used by people and bicycles, etc. it's not that surprising. And honestly there are a lot of country side roads where due to the road being worn down the maximal speed allowed is completely ridiculous. Edit: Uhm, How did someone one a bicycle die in a traffic accident on a highway? ??
  - zaarn 5y ago
    I've seen more than a few instances of bikers thinking the side of the autobahn is a great place to take the fast route to some destination. Probably their GPS navigation or them being rather light on the entire "being alive" thing.
lucb1e 5y ago
As your example shows, the speed is not the problem, the difference is. If I remember correctly, some research found the accidents to occur where people drive more different speeds rather than where people drive fast. Overtaking someone without an empty lane of separation with a difference greater than 50km/h is unsafe any day of the week. You have no time to react if that person decides to overtake someone else, if there is something in front of them that they need to swerve around... on German dashcam channels the people that drive 180km/h+ get excessively angry when someone pulls to the left to overtake a truck and I just keep wondering if they have anger issues. I get that they feel like that person almost killed them but they're the ones trying to pass someone with a huge speed differential. Perhaps we should address the differential if you want to address human safety. Put a speed camera in an unlimited section that just watches the speed difference between adjacent lanes. When too large, a cop can look at the recording and judge the safety of the situation for themselves. That's what they're doing with "smartphone cameras" now in the Netherlands: the camera spots that you are holding a smartphone and takes a picture, then 2 cops independently check the picture to see if the computer got it correct, and then you get a fine in the mail (which you can fight if you disagree).

pintxo 5y ago

Obviously higher speed translates into higher risk. But given that less than 10% of all accidents resulting in bodily injuries happen on Autobahns, it looks like there are for more important factors to consider than speed alone. https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Verkehrsunfaelle/Tabellen/polizeilich-erfasste-unfaelle.html;jsessionid=80FF932D42A4B51DDA631B4F6CEB403B.live722 https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Verkeh...

dathinab 5y ago
Just because other parts of the streets are "less safe" (in given statistics) doesn't mean you can't or should not improve the situations in other places if it's simple, straight forward and with little drawbacks. (Which is what IMHO it the more important part in the discussion, is a cap of 130 km/h to low? Should it be 160 km/h?) As a side note the statistics about accidents is not the relevant one in this discussion. The relevant on would be deadly accidents on highway vs. city vs. country side as well as deadly accidents on highway involving speeds > 130km/h and not involving speeds > 130 km/h. And yes, if we look at deadly accidents of PKWs (~= normal car, i.e. not bus, truck, bike, etc.) then our country side streets are basically death traps.. But then if we consider they in Germany country side streets are often: Less maintained, seamed with trees, areas where wild animals might cross, used by drunk people going home at 3am, used by farming vehicles, used by people and bicycles, etc. it's not that surprising. And honestly there are a lot of country side roads where due to the road being worn down the maximal speed allowed is completely ridiculous. Edit: Uhm, How did someone one a bicycle die in a traffic accident on a highway? ??
- zaarn 5y ago
  I've seen more than a few instances of bikers thinking the side of the autobahn is a great place to take the fast route to some destination. Probably their GPS navigation or them being rather light on the entire "being alive" thing.

lucb1e 5y ago

As your example shows, the speed is not the problem, the difference is. If I remember correctly, some research found the accidents to occur where people drive more different speeds rather than where people drive fast. Overtaking someone without an empty lane of separation with a difference greater than 50km/h is unsafe any day of the week. You have no time to react if that person decides to overtake someone else, if there is something in front of them that they need to swerve around... on German dashcam channels the people that drive 180km/h+ get excessively angry when someone pulls to the left to overtake a truck and I just keep wondering if they have anger issues. I get that they feel like that person almost killed them but they're the ones trying to pass someone with a huge speed differential. Perhaps we should address the differential if you want to address human safety. Put a speed camera in an unlimited section that just watches the speed difference between adjacent lanes. When too large, a cop can look at the recording and judge the safety of the situation for themselves. That's what they're doing with "smartphone cameras" now in the Netherlands: the camera spots that you are holding a smartphone and takes a picture, then 2 cops independently check the picture to see if the computer got it correct, and then you get a fine in the mail (which you can fight if you disagree).