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German highways are safer than most highways of most neighboring countries anduch safer than German country roads. They are also getting safer every year. And a

German highways are safer than most highways of most neighboring countries anduch safer than German country roads. They are also getting safer every year. And any speed limit will reduce CO2 emissions, that much should be clear. The real question should be: What kind of virtue signalling is it that demands this (arbitrary) limit of 130kph? On most German highways you can easily go 160 in a modern medium-sized car. Electrical cars have much lower carbon dioxide emissions. So what's the fucking point? I am really curious to understand why so many people see the absence of a speed limit as such a red flag. No one forces them to drive faster (source: I drive several hundreds of km per month around 120kph). Insurance companies already expect you to stay below 130 to get your full coverage. There are much more dangerous roads with speed limits in Germany. So why this fervor? I can only speculate but it really seems like some form of envy. There are people out there that do something unregulated and to some other people this is completely unacceptable.

allendoerfer 5y ago
> I can only speculate but it really seems like some form of envy. There are people out there that do something unregulated and to some other people this is completely unacceptable. I second that. It just isn't German to have something so seemingly unregulated. People will call the police when periods of rests are ignored or a machine is turned on on a Sunday.
dathinab 5y ago
> (arbitrary) limit of 130kph? It's not realy arbitrary, it's the "Richtgeschwindigkeit" on most (all?) highways with higher speed limits (the speed which you are recommended to not go over by a large degree and where your tend to pay less if you get into an accident while going over it). A bit above 130 km/h is a point at which the degree of death tend to noticeable increase in case of accidents, relevantly this includes the death of uninvolved 3rd parties. > No one forces them to drive faster ( Yes, but other people drive fast and potentially into you, I have seen more then just one or two near accidents because of people driving noticeable above 160 km/h on highway areas where it was allowed but not recommendable due to the amount of traffic. And I don't drive a lot. I also can forward the opinion my Dad has on this (who frequently needs to do multiple day trips spawning 300-500km/h and drives a car which can go ~200km/h). I don't remember the exact wording but it was basically something along side of: A speed limit makes sense but 130 km/h is to low. Way to many drivers are way to bad on judging when the traffic allows you to go 180 km/h and when it is dangerous. To many people think that because there is no tempo limit they can go with 180 or more on a non empty highway and I have seen and been involved in way to many nearly accidents which likely would have been deadly (if they would have happened) which involved people going at such high speeds. I mean sure if the highway is empty and dry and I'm not sleepy then going with 180 km/h or even more can be quite fun, but I which people would only do so if the highway is empty and dry. [And then he went on, about people being even worse at estimating safe speeds if rain, fog or snow is involved and how he was more then once nearly killed by someone going way to fast under such conditions.] (now back to my opinion): IMHO going fast is fun, but the highway is not meant to be fun it's meant to allow safe driving and going with really high speeds in the wrong situations you are not just endangering yourself. Anyway, idk if a cap at 130 is the right thing and there are also other factors like the environmental damage because of the ware of the rubber wheels, noise etc.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Indeed, highways are not for fun and Germany already has the Nurburgring for that purpose anyway. However I'm not advocating taking Germany's unlimited speeds away. It's up to them IMO.
  - freemint 5y ago
    We will be voting on the issue (indirectly) in the general election.
mustafa_pasi 5y ago
That one stretch of road is safer than some other arbitrary stretch of road does not mean that imposing speed limits would not help make the first road even safer. Frankly I don't like people driving at excessive speeds around me, because it puts my life in danger. Not that hard to understand.
Loveaway 5y ago
I don't know man, Germans never been known to posses much humour, but lately the no-fun-allowed mentality is really getting steam again. I think people feel oppressed or perspective-less, so they divert their anger into a zealous notion, and want to restrict and regulate for what is perceived as a righteous cause. There's so much ill will directed at all kinds of people currently, people traveling abroad, stadium visitors, youth gathering in parks. Not the same topic, but again, quick to condemn any kind of enjoyment without being reasonable. Besides, I think it would self-sabotage their own automotive industry (which is the biggest part of Germans GDP). That 2 MT isn't gonna do anything, but the Autobahn is pretty much the only place that warrants buying nice expensive German cars (and for a lot of people cars become a huge motivation). So with a tempo limit it all kinda seems a bit pointless.
- freemint 5y ago
  As a German younger than 25 i would certainly like to buy a nice German car in the future. However what i find nice differs from "car go fast", "car makes load brum" or "car seats has female baby cow leather". I would like to see the German engineering focus more on utilitarian cars instead of "Top Gear worthy cars". A speed limit will help encourage the industry to find other areas to focus more on.
freemint 5y ago
German here. > What kind of virtue signalling is it that demands this (arbitrary) limit of 130km/h? A lack of a speed limit (in an industrialized country) is uniquely German phenomena. By introducing a speed limit many consequences follow that i generally agree with, such as reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, lower maintenance cost of roads (although putting goods on trains would do a more), discouragement of buying cars that go significantly above the speed limit, making traveling smoother for people currently driving below the future speed limit, making cars less attractive compared to trains for intercity travel. The point is that national irrationality (or more politically correct Culture-bound syndrome) cause ineffeciency, whether we are talking about South Korean fan death or the percieved need to be allowed to drive as fast as you want both does unnecessary harm. We know it's unnecessary because every other (comparable?) country can do without.
lucb1e 5y ago
This is an interesting comment because I generally agree with your arguments (e.g. that electric is better, so what's the point limiting them), but you draw a different conclusion, namely that there should simply not be a limit, while also not saying that there should be a limit for combustion engines even though you just argued against those.
- freemint 5y ago
  (Battery) Electric is not just "better" and then personal car use of intercity travel is ok. If Electric cars only need to be build to reach 130 Km/h they can be made more efficient and cheaper (allowing for earlier and larger adoption). Cars that want to be faster and need quadratically more energy with speed need to be heavier, need more Lithium.
  - lucb1e 5y ago
    That still sounds better than constant GHG emissions to me, even if it's not perfect. If you have numbers that show differently (perhaps the cut-off point as you scale up from electric bike to airplane lies right at large or fast cars?) I'd be happy to learn that I'm wrong, though.

allendoerfer 5y ago

> I can only speculate but it really seems like some form of envy. There are people out there that do something unregulated and to some other people this is completely unacceptable. I second that. It just isn't German to have something so seemingly unregulated. People will call the police when periods of rests are ignored or a machine is turned on on a Sunday.

dathinab 5y ago

> (arbitrary) limit of 130kph? It's not realy arbitrary, it's the "Richtgeschwindigkeit" on most (all?) highways with higher speed limits (the speed which you are recommended to not go over by a large degree and where your tend to pay less if you get into an accident while going over it). A bit above 130 km/h is a point at which the degree of death tend to noticeable increase in case of accidents, relevantly this includes the death of uninvolved 3rd parties. > No one forces them to drive faster ( Yes, but other people drive fast and potentially into you, I have seen more then just one or two near accidents because of people driving noticeable above 160 km/h on highway areas where it was allowed but not recommendable due to the amount of traffic. And I don't drive a lot. I also can forward the opinion my Dad has on this (who frequently needs to do multiple day trips spawning 300-500km/h and drives a car which can go ~200km/h). I don't remember the exact wording but it was basically something along side of: A speed limit makes sense but 130 km/h is to low. Way to many drivers are way to bad on judging when the traffic allows you to go 180 km/h and when it is dangerous. To many people think that because there is no tempo limit they can go with 180 or more on a non empty highway and I have seen and been involved in way to many nearly accidents which likely would have been deadly (if they would have happened) which involved people going at such high speeds. I mean sure if the highway is empty and dry and I'm not sleepy then going with 180 km/h or even more can be quite fun, but I which people would only do so if the highway is empty and dry. [And then he went on, about people being even worse at estimating safe speeds if rain, fog or snow is involved and how he was more then once nearly killed by someone going way to fast under such conditions.] (now back to my opinion): IMHO going fast is fun, but the highway is not meant to be fun it's meant to allow safe driving and going with really high speeds in the wrong situations you are not just endangering yourself. Anyway, idk if a cap at 130 is the right thing and there are also other factors like the environmental damage because of the ware of the rubber wheels, noise etc.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
Indeed, highways are not for fun and Germany already has the Nurburgring for that purpose anyway. However I'm not advocating taking Germany's unlimited speeds away. It's up to them IMO.
- freemint 5y ago
  We will be voting on the issue (indirectly) in the general election.

mustafa_pasi 5y ago

That one stretch of road is safer than some other arbitrary stretch of road does not mean that imposing speed limits would not help make the first road even safer. Frankly I don't like people driving at excessive speeds around me, because it puts my life in danger. Not that hard to understand.

Loveaway 5y ago

I don't know man, Germans never been known to posses much humour, but lately the no-fun-allowed mentality is really getting steam again. I think people feel oppressed or perspective-less, so they divert their anger into a zealous notion, and want to restrict and regulate for what is perceived as a righteous cause. There's so much ill will directed at all kinds of people currently, people traveling abroad, stadium visitors, youth gathering in parks. Not the same topic, but again, quick to condemn any kind of enjoyment without being reasonable. Besides, I think it would self-sabotage their own automotive industry (which is the biggest part of Germans GDP). That 2 MT isn't gonna do anything, but the Autobahn is pretty much the only place that warrants buying nice expensive German cars (and for a lot of people cars become a huge motivation). So with a tempo limit it all kinda seems a bit pointless.

freemint 5y ago
As a German younger than 25 i would certainly like to buy a nice German car in the future. However what i find nice differs from "car go fast", "car makes load brum" or "car seats has female baby cow leather". I would like to see the German engineering focus more on utilitarian cars instead of "Top Gear worthy cars". A speed limit will help encourage the industry to find other areas to focus more on.

freemint 5y ago

German here. > What kind of virtue signalling is it that demands this (arbitrary) limit of 130km/h? A lack of a speed limit (in an industrialized country) is uniquely German phenomena. By introducing a speed limit many consequences follow that i generally agree with, such as reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, lower maintenance cost of roads (although putting goods on trains would do a more), discouragement of buying cars that go significantly above the speed limit, making traveling smoother for people currently driving below the future speed limit, making cars less attractive compared to trains for intercity travel. The point is that national irrationality (or more politically correct Culture-bound syndrome) cause ineffeciency, whether we are talking about South Korean fan death or the percieved need to be allowed to drive as fast as you want both does unnecessary harm. We know it's unnecessary because every other (comparable?) country can do without.

lucb1e 5y ago

This is an interesting comment because I generally agree with your arguments (e.g. that electric is better, so what's the point limiting them), but you draw a different conclusion, namely that there should simply not be a limit, while also not saying that there should be a limit for combustion engines even though you just argued against those.

freemint 5y ago
(Battery) Electric is not just "better" and then personal car use of intercity travel is ok. If Electric cars only need to be build to reach 130 Km/h they can be made more efficient and cheaper (allowing for earlier and larger adoption). Cars that want to be faster and need quadratically more energy with speed need to be heavier, need more Lithium.
- lucb1e 5y ago
  That still sounds better than constant GHG emissions to me, even if it's not perfect. If you have numbers that show differently (perhaps the cut-off point as you scale up from electric bike to airplane lies right at large or fast cars?) I'd be happy to learn that I'm wrong, though.