10 ms·

honestly I'm getting very weary of this trend of people being into their emotions or making their emotional life the center-stage of their being. It seems like

honestly I'm getting very weary of this trend of people being into their emotions or making their emotional life the center-stage of their being. It seems like a very narcissistic hedonism. I've always felt that there's a simple answer to being 'unhappy'. Just do something that helps others, take some responsibility in the real world, even if it's small but at least you're doing something real, and worst case you're still miserable but at least you've done something meaningful. I've started to appreciate the religious outlook more that has a mature attitude to suffering rather than this honestly pretty childish avoidance of negative emotions.

BitwiseFool 5y ago
"The universe is a cruel, uncaring void. The key to being happy isn't a search for meaning. It's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually, you'll be dead." ― Mr.Peanutbutter (Bojack Horseman)
- iancmceachern 5y ago
  From Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: "Perhaps I'm old and tired, but I think that the chances of finding out what's actually going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, "Hang the sense of it," and keep yourself busy. I'd much rather be happy than right any day."
loopz 5y ago
Maybe people have different needs?
polishdude20 5y ago
It's as if there's a separate higher state of being one can be in that's not happiness, sadness or anger. It's something akin to being content. But more like, a thing inside you saying "I am ok with being happy when it happens, I am ok with being sad when it happens and I am ok with getting a grey sometimes." It's the acknowledgment that you will feel different emotions throughout your life and you are ready to take them on and grow from them. Sadness or anger aren't bad. They serve a purpose.
- Buttons840 5y ago
  Well said. I've heard this called "equanimity" in some mindfulness meditation books, and is one of the primary traits practicioners seek to cultivate. It's good to hear it as an original thought in original terms though.
jvanderbot 5y ago
I believe there's some truth to this. The most successful forms of therapy teach you to stop having negative thoughts about your situation by interrogating the reality of those thoughts, and detaching from them . If you stop caring that you're feeling unhappy, are you unhappy?
- lanstin 5y ago
  As a long time meditator, I can say that as you regard thoughts more as potentially useful but maybe not mental formations rather than as bits of truth, then the energy behind the positive and the negative feelings becomes a little less. Rather than everything becoming a totality, it's more gentle; not "I'm going to die" but an awareness of a negative feeling. Not "I'm the emperor!" but a pleasure in doing something well. As feelings become safer to experience and your perceptiveness becomes tuned into the way your interior world works, I find a greater diversity of feelings. The way I can eat very spicy food and just blow up if I'm not used to it, or if my spice taste is adjusted, I can enjoy the way all the subtle flavors mix together and are amplified by the spice, being aware of thoughts and feelings is like the right amount of spice - fully alive as a sensate and sentient creature, but free anyways, free in the moment to steer your body/mind.
lethologica 5y ago
I’ve gone through a similar journey myself almost exactly. However, I had to wade through a lot of crap to get to this point and this whole “trend” was one of those areas I had to go through to get to where I am now. I agree it’s a simplified version of what the religions offer. Similar to how Stoicism and Minimalism have both gone through a resurgence in popularity and sales recently, but the stuff released recently on those topics only scratches the surface of what they actually are. I view this “emotion trend” as something similar to those two modernised versions of the previously mentioned philosophies: a good spring board into the real thing. But without it existing I’d have never gotten to the real thing so I see it as having some value.
Ma8ee 5y ago
Well, my emotional life is at the very centre of my experience of the world, so it is kind of hard to ignore. Maybe it is self-centred to care about my emotions, but I have also learned that I’m a much better husband, father, and coworker when I’m happy than when I feel like shit.
iammisc 5y ago
> I've started to appreciate the religious outlook more that has a mature attitude to suffering rather than this honestly pretty childish avoidance of negative emotions. People look at me like I'm nuts when I tell them (honestly) "I don't believe in happiness". I mean that honestly. I believe in emotions like contentedness, elation, joy, jubilation, etc. Things that many consider 'happy'. But this notion of happiness as a permanent state of being. I've never experienced it or seen it. It does not exist. Those pursuing it have some religious attachment to it. Moreover, even if I did believe in it, I am unconvinced of its utility or whether it's a worthy goal to pursue. Seems completely wasteful to me.
- fragmede 5y ago
  If your definition of happy includes it being a permanent state of being, no wonder you can't find it. That's not part of the definition for happiness. If I said I don't believe in computers, but my definition of computers is "sentient beings from another planet living on Earth", people would look at me like I'm nuts, for multiple reasons.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    Ah, the definition was wrong. You failed to correct us, though.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    It's not that I can't find it. It's that I have no interest in pursuing it. I am extremely content and satisfied with my life. See no point in chasing things I don't need. This is the problem. I tell people I'm not interested in being happy, and they take that to mean my life sucks (for lack of a better term). Nothing is further from the truth. Unlike my happiness oriented friends, I am extremely content. I have a beautiful wife and lovely children. My family lives close by. I have close friends. I want for nothing. People tell me I smile a lot. But I have no feeling I'd describe as happy. I'm not sad. I'm just content. I see no point in seeking the thrill of happiness, just like I see no point seeking the thrill of skydiving. I intellectually see how such fleeting experiences could be nice, but I don't want or need them
Apocryphon 5y ago
Wasn't stoicism the last big trend in recent years? People cargo culting Marcus Aurelius's Meditations and so forth.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  ...cargo culting and misunderstanding it deeply.
themodelplumber 5y ago
For a lot of people to whom this kind of attention to emotion is helpful, it's a promotion from "zero space for emotion" to space given "anywhere on the stage," quite far from making it center stage. It's a big step for them. If they overshoot at first and look like emotional-obsessives, that sort of thing also happens all the time with people who are learning the ropes with just about any new thing. BTW nothing personal, but I've noticed that advice that starts with the word "just" never seems as effective or rewarding in the long run as the thoughtful, deep, measured-out kind which starts with, say, a question...
MarkLowenstein 5y ago
After reading as much of the article as I could, I concluded that the best way to avoid malaise is to quit being so introspective; quit acting like my gratification is so dang important; and just go do something.
svcrunch 5y ago
I'll just add some supporting material from one of my favorite authors, Leo Tolstoy. > Just do something that helps others, take some responsibility in the real world, even if it's small but at least you're doing something real This reminds me of a line in one of his stories (paraphrasing) : "The surest path to happiness is service of others." It's also the final lesson of his autobiographical short story, Father Sergius, and comes up in the story Two Old Men where it's juxtaposed with a ritualistic view of religion lacking an ethos of service. > worst case you're still miserable but at least you've done something meaningful. You won't be miserable, although you will likely appear that way to the eyes of worldly people. That's the central theme of Tolstoy's exquisite and (very) short story, Alyosha the Pot.
acuozzo 5y ago
> Just do something that helps others The primary reason for my unhappiness is that the majority of my time (excluding sleep) is spent in the service of others and very little time is left to do things for myself. I'd love to have enough time to read more than 3-5 pages of a book per night.
- jodrellblank 5y ago
  It isn't though, the primary reason for your unhappiness is not "I can only read 5 pages a night", if you were so busy with other things you love and you also managed to read 5 pages per night as well, you could be very happy. It isn't the page count, it's the mental story.
  - acuozzo 5y ago
    > if you were so busy with other things you love This, of course, assumes that the time spent in service of others can be changed or that the consequences of that change would not further contribute to unhappiness. I have a close friend responsible for taking care of his infirm mother. They receive just enough financial assistance from the government to get by, but not enough to get her even part-time assistance. His father is dead and she requires full-time care, so he is stuck in the unfortunate situation of having to do everything for her. This has been the case for the past fifteen years. He loves her, but obviously hates this situation. Unfortunately, he'd also hate himself if he were to leave her to die. > It isn't the page count, it's the mental story. For some, yes, but for others like my friend this would reduce to very unconvincing mental gymnastics. People sometimes have shitty lives for reasons that are largely outside of their control. To consider a more extreme case… would you give this kind of advice to a depressed enslaved person?
jodrellblank 5y ago
> "Just do something that helps others, take some responsibility in the real world, even if it's small but at least you're doing something real, and worst case you're still miserable but at least you've done something meaningful." These things don't exist either, except as stories that you tell yourself. Why isn't it just as narcissistic to be obsessed with doing "meaningful" things and thinking you are so great for doing that? And then your answer is "just" do these things and you still might be miserable? This is all around a terrible fix for anything. It's like the story of the therapist who said people should stay in relationships even if they're unhappy, for the sake of love. "So now you've got two unhappy people, but long live 'love', what use is that to anyone?" If the article is correct (I think it is) then how you feel is based on the thoughts you have, and what you do is based on how you think and feel. That means "just" overcome your negative thoughts by magic, and do meaningful things, is a nonsense fix - it's like saying "stop navel gazing about refuelling your car and just drive somewhere". Well, how? If you don't think people will want your help because you feel worthless, how do you "just" help people? "just" fix what you think so you don't feel worthless, then that frees you up to go help people. Like the airplane warning "put on your own facemask first".
pessimizer 5y ago
> It seems like a very narcissistic hedonism. Maybe, but I think it's more a treadmill of marketing and consuming to create the emotions that marketing promises.
CountDrewku 5y ago
> mature attitude to suffering rather than this honestly pretty childish avoidance of negative emotions. There's an insidious attitude that seems to be pervading modern culture where everything is about being happy and any negative feeling is wrong. You should always feel good! If you don't you have a mental health issue that needs immediate treatment. It's stupid and unrealistic. Life sucks and then you die. Often the sucky parts create character and give you the most meaning/satisfaction. Until very recently people didn't even have the time to consider whether they felt happy, they just existed and did what was needed to continue living and moving forward with their lives.
- dave_sullivan 5y ago
  I think there's a balance to be had. I'm not sure what that balance is. In general, "spend less time around people that drain your energy and more time around people that you feel energized by" seems like good advice. I think it's ok for the human race to pursue something better than "life sucks and then you die." I feel lucky that I was not born in the past, despite several issues currently facing humanity. It's ok to consider ways life might be better, even if it mostly just stays the same.
- sunshineforever 5y ago
  My doctor suggested antidepressants. I told her that my life is actually hard and that I know that I'm not currently living up to my own expectations.
rufus_foreman 5y ago
>> Just do something that helps others Hasn't worked for me, in making me happy. >> take some responsibility in the real world Utter disaster as far as happiness is concerned. >> I've started to appreciate the religious outlook more that has a mature attitude to suffering That religious outlook seems to be "suffer more and be happy less", my answer to that is no.
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  At least in Catholicism (my experience): ‘ author G.K. Chesterton once noted that “joy is the gigantic secret of the Christian.” True joy is why martyrs could die with joy. True joy is why St. Paul can command Christians to “rejoice always.” Because true joy is not illusory or conditional. True joy is based on a foundation outside of the individual.’
  - rufus_foreman 5y ago
    >> True joy is based on a foundation outside of the individual You’ll get pie in the sky when you die.
  - tomc1985 5y ago
    But what is that actually saying? It sounds like nothing to me, other than moving the goalposts towards something that only Catholicism (or religion) can provide.

BitwiseFool 5y ago

"The universe is a cruel, uncaring void. The key to being happy isn't a search for meaning. It's to just keep yourself busy with unimportant nonsense, and eventually, you'll be dead." ― Mr.Peanutbutter (Bojack Horseman)

iancmceachern 5y ago
From Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: "Perhaps I'm old and tired, but I think that the chances of finding out what's actually going on are so absurdly remote that the only thing to do is to say, "Hang the sense of it," and keep yourself busy. I'd much rather be happy than right any day."

loopz 5y ago

Maybe people have different needs?

polishdude20 5y ago

It's as if there's a separate higher state of being one can be in that's not happiness, sadness or anger. It's something akin to being content. But more like, a thing inside you saying "I am ok with being happy when it happens, I am ok with being sad when it happens and I am ok with getting a grey sometimes." It's the acknowledgment that you will feel different emotions throughout your life and you are ready to take them on and grow from them. Sadness or anger aren't bad. They serve a purpose.

Buttons840 5y ago
Well said. I've heard this called "equanimity" in some mindfulness meditation books, and is one of the primary traits practicioners seek to cultivate. It's good to hear it as an original thought in original terms though.

jvanderbot 5y ago

I believe there's some truth to this. The most successful forms of therapy teach you to stop having negative thoughts about your situation by interrogating the reality of those thoughts, and detaching from them . If you stop caring that you're feeling unhappy, are you unhappy?

lanstin 5y ago
As a long time meditator, I can say that as you regard thoughts more as potentially useful but maybe not mental formations rather than as bits of truth, then the energy behind the positive and the negative feelings becomes a little less. Rather than everything becoming a totality, it's more gentle; not "I'm going to die" but an awareness of a negative feeling. Not "I'm the emperor!" but a pleasure in doing something well. As feelings become safer to experience and your perceptiveness becomes tuned into the way your interior world works, I find a greater diversity of feelings. The way I can eat very spicy food and just blow up if I'm not used to it, or if my spice taste is adjusted, I can enjoy the way all the subtle flavors mix together and are amplified by the spice, being aware of thoughts and feelings is like the right amount of spice - fully alive as a sensate and sentient creature, but free anyways, free in the moment to steer your body/mind.

lethologica 5y ago

I’ve gone through a similar journey myself almost exactly. However, I had to wade through a lot of crap to get to this point and this whole “trend” was one of those areas I had to go through to get to where I am now. I agree it’s a simplified version of what the religions offer. Similar to how Stoicism and Minimalism have both gone through a resurgence in popularity and sales recently, but the stuff released recently on those topics only scratches the surface of what they actually are. I view this “emotion trend” as something similar to those two modernised versions of the previously mentioned philosophies: a good spring board into the real thing. But without it existing I’d have never gotten to the real thing so I see it as having some value.

Ma8ee 5y ago

Well, my emotional life is at the very centre of my experience of the world, so it is kind of hard to ignore. Maybe it is self-centred to care about my emotions, but I have also learned that I’m a much better husband, father, and coworker when I’m happy than when I feel like shit.

iammisc 5y ago

> I've started to appreciate the religious outlook more that has a mature attitude to suffering rather than this honestly pretty childish avoidance of negative emotions. People look at me like I'm nuts when I tell them (honestly) "I don't believe in happiness". I mean that honestly. I believe in emotions like contentedness, elation, joy, jubilation, etc. Things that many consider 'happy'. But this notion of happiness as a permanent state of being. I've never experienced it or seen it. It does not exist. Those pursuing it have some religious attachment to it. Moreover, even if I did believe in it, I am unconvinced of its utility or whether it's a worthy goal to pursue. Seems completely wasteful to me.

fragmede 5y ago
If your definition of happy includes it being a permanent state of being, no wonder you can't find it. That's not part of the definition for happiness. If I said I don't believe in computers, but my definition of computers is "sentient beings from another planet living on Earth", people would look at me like I'm nuts, for multiple reasons.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  Ah, the definition was wrong. You failed to correct us, though.
- iammisc 5y ago
  It's not that I can't find it. It's that I have no interest in pursuing it. I am extremely content and satisfied with my life. See no point in chasing things I don't need. This is the problem. I tell people I'm not interested in being happy, and they take that to mean my life sucks (for lack of a better term). Nothing is further from the truth. Unlike my happiness oriented friends, I am extremely content. I have a beautiful wife and lovely children. My family lives close by. I have close friends. I want for nothing. People tell me I smile a lot. But I have no feeling I'd describe as happy. I'm not sad. I'm just content. I see no point in seeking the thrill of happiness, just like I see no point seeking the thrill of skydiving. I intellectually see how such fleeting experiences could be nice, but I don't want or need them

Apocryphon 5y ago

Wasn't stoicism the last big trend in recent years? People cargo culting Marcus Aurelius's Meditations and so forth.

goodpoint 5y ago
...cargo culting and misunderstanding it deeply.

themodelplumber 5y ago

For a lot of people to whom this kind of attention to emotion is helpful, it's a promotion from "zero space for emotion" to space given "anywhere on the stage," quite far from making it center stage. It's a big step for them. If they overshoot at first and look like emotional-obsessives, that sort of thing also happens all the time with people who are learning the ropes with just about any new thing. BTW nothing personal, but I've noticed that advice that starts with the word "just" never seems as effective or rewarding in the long run as the thoughtful, deep, measured-out kind which starts with, say, a question...

MarkLowenstein 5y ago

After reading as much of the article as I could, I concluded that the best way to avoid malaise is to quit being so introspective; quit acting like my gratification is so dang important; and just go do something.

svcrunch 5y ago

I'll just add some supporting material from one of my favorite authors, Leo Tolstoy. > Just do something that helps others, take some responsibility in the real world, even if it's small but at least you're doing something real This reminds me of a line in one of his stories (paraphrasing) : "The surest path to happiness is service of others." It's also the final lesson of his autobiographical short story, Father Sergius, and comes up in the story Two Old Men where it's juxtaposed with a ritualistic view of religion lacking an ethos of service. > worst case you're still miserable but at least you've done something meaningful. You won't be miserable, although you will likely appear that way to the eyes of worldly people. That's the central theme of Tolstoy's exquisite and (very) short story, Alyosha the Pot.

acuozzo 5y ago

> Just do something that helps others The primary reason for my unhappiness is that the majority of my time (excluding sleep) is spent in the service of others and very little time is left to do things for myself. I'd love to have enough time to read more than 3-5 pages of a book per night.

jodrellblank 5y ago
It isn't though, the primary reason for your unhappiness is not "I can only read 5 pages a night", if you were so busy with other things you love and you also managed to read 5 pages per night as well, you could be very happy. It isn't the page count, it's the mental story.
- acuozzo 5y ago
  > if you were so busy with other things you love This, of course, assumes that the time spent in service of others can be changed or that the consequences of that change would not further contribute to unhappiness. I have a close friend responsible for taking care of his infirm mother. They receive just enough financial assistance from the government to get by, but not enough to get her even part-time assistance. His father is dead and she requires full-time care, so he is stuck in the unfortunate situation of having to do everything for her. This has been the case for the past fifteen years. He loves her, but obviously hates this situation. Unfortunately, he'd also hate himself if he were to leave her to die. > It isn't the page count, it's the mental story. For some, yes, but for others like my friend this would reduce to very unconvincing mental gymnastics. People sometimes have shitty lives for reasons that are largely outside of their control. To consider a more extreme case… would you give this kind of advice to a depressed enslaved person?

jodrellblank 5y ago

> "Just do something that helps others, take some responsibility in the real world, even if it's small but at least you're doing something real, and worst case you're still miserable but at least you've done something meaningful." These things don't exist either, except as stories that you tell yourself. Why isn't it just as narcissistic to be obsessed with doing "meaningful" things and thinking you are so great for doing that? And then your answer is "just" do these things and you still might be miserable? This is all around a terrible fix for anything. It's like the story of the therapist who said people should stay in relationships even if they're unhappy, for the sake of love. "So now you've got two unhappy people, but long live 'love', what use is that to anyone?" If the article is correct (I think it is) then how you feel is based on the thoughts you have, and what you do is based on how you think and feel. That means "just" overcome your negative thoughts by magic, and do meaningful things, is a nonsense fix - it's like saying "stop navel gazing about refuelling your car and just drive somewhere". Well, how? If you don't think people will want your help because you feel worthless, how do you "just" help people? "just" fix what you think so you don't feel worthless, then that frees you up to go help people. Like the airplane warning "put on your own facemask first".

pessimizer 5y ago

> It seems like a very narcissistic hedonism. Maybe, but I think it's more a treadmill of marketing and consuming to create the emotions that marketing promises.

CountDrewku 5y ago

> mature attitude to suffering rather than this honestly pretty childish avoidance of negative emotions. There's an insidious attitude that seems to be pervading modern culture where everything is about being happy and any negative feeling is wrong. You should always feel good! If you don't you have a mental health issue that needs immediate treatment. It's stupid and unrealistic. Life sucks and then you die. Often the sucky parts create character and give you the most meaning/satisfaction. Until very recently people didn't even have the time to consider whether they felt happy, they just existed and did what was needed to continue living and moving forward with their lives.

dave_sullivan 5y ago
I think there's a balance to be had. I'm not sure what that balance is. In general, "spend less time around people that drain your energy and more time around people that you feel energized by" seems like good advice. I think it's ok for the human race to pursue something better than "life sucks and then you die." I feel lucky that I was not born in the past, despite several issues currently facing humanity. It's ok to consider ways life might be better, even if it mostly just stays the same.
sunshineforever 5y ago
My doctor suggested antidepressants. I told her that my life is actually hard and that I know that I'm not currently living up to my own expectations.

rufus_foreman 5y ago

>> Just do something that helps others Hasn't worked for me, in making me happy. >> take some responsibility in the real world Utter disaster as far as happiness is concerned. >> I've started to appreciate the religious outlook more that has a mature attitude to suffering That religious outlook seems to be "suffer more and be happy less", my answer to that is no.

mensetmanusman 5y ago
At least in Catholicism (my experience): ‘ author G.K. Chesterton once noted that “joy is the gigantic secret of the Christian.” True joy is why martyrs could die with joy. True joy is why St. Paul can command Christians to “rejoice always.” Because true joy is not illusory or conditional. True joy is based on a foundation outside of the individual.’
- rufus_foreman 5y ago
  >> True joy is based on a foundation outside of the individual You’ll get pie in the sky when you die.
- tomc1985 5y ago
  But what is that actually saying? It sounds like nothing to me, other than moving the goalposts towards something that only Catholicism (or religion) can provide.