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> Tell your 0.1 friends to focus on all those points you made They know it already, most of my friends are classical liberals/conservatives. > they will be th

> Tell your 0.1 friends to focus on all those points you made They know it already, most of my friends are classical liberals/conservatives. > they will be the scapegoat for the mob You are probably in the top 10% (as most people here on HN), so a lot of people here might become the same scapegoat. > Things are getting bad enough to where "cutting ones nose to spite the face" I'm not sure things are getting bad. Poorest people now are more rich than poorest people 30 years ago. Like in the US now average electrician makes 70K a year. That's a lot of money. And anyone can be electrician. They say income inequality raises, which is bad, but it might be not that bad, because common inequality measures do not includes the costs of free stuff given to poorest people from the government, like better free hospitals which they can use in case of emergency. > starts to make sense redistributing the misery the rich have insulated themselves from. As I said, taxing the wealthiest (especially with extremely high taxes like proposed by certain "liberal" activists) will not make poor people more rich. It will make poor people even more poor because of economic recession. Different measures are needed.

pope_meat 5y ago
I'm in the bottom 50% of the population money wise, but you're right, HN is definitely full of people in the top 10%, and so literally shortwire in their brains when I say something like "it's bad enough to where cutting ones nose to spite the face is starting to make sense" Because from your position it seems absurd. From mine it seems like the only move left to make.
- asteroidbelt 5y ago
  > it's bad enough to where cutting ones nose to spite the face is starting to make sense What is the evidence that now is worse than say 30 years ago for the bottom 50%? It is perceived that it is worse now. But is it objectively worse?
  - pope_meat 5y ago
    Cost of education Cost of housing Cost of healthcare went up. Income went down. So I guess you're right, objectively things are much better, it's just my perception of paying 80% of my income to rent that's the problem.
    - asteroidbelt 5y ago
      > Cost of education went up If you need high education, you just take credit, and pay for it with your salary which is much higher than it was 30 years ago. And if you think that you won't be able to pay for credit because it's not possible to find a decent job with liberal arts degree, then probably you don't need that education. > Cost of housing went up I suspect that's because construction workers are paid well now. So instead of studying classical literature in high school, maybe study bricklaying. > Cost of healthcare went up This is the issue, but "taxing the rich" won't solve it. It need to be properly regulated. The fact that insulin costs $100 has nothing to do with taxes for the rich people. > Income went down Seems like it is not true. There's a chart: inflation adjusted median household income. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N It goes up. > perception of paying 80% of my income to rent that's the problem Man, I don't know your situation. Sometimes people pay for something they shouldn't. Like buying a shiny new car while old car only need occasional repairs, or buying top new iphones while cheapest android is 1/10 of that. When I was young I rented a flat which costed me about 70% of income, while I could rent a room for 30% of my income, or a flat for 30% of income and two hours commute. But it didn't matter because I was young, and I would not do that now. If that's your case, you may need to reconsider your worldview. If it's not, than I don't really know your situation to comment on that.
      - pope_meat 5y ago
        https://www.marketwatch.com/story/income-share-of-bottom-50-is-collapsing-finds-researchers-including-piketty-2017-02-07 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/income-share-of-bottom-50-...
        asteroidbelt 5y ago
kelnos 5y ago
> I'm not sure things are getting bad. Poorest people now are more rich than poorest people 30 years ago. > Like in the US now average electrician makes 70K a year. That's a lot of money. And anyone can be electrician. I would not consider electricians as an example of poor people. And no, not anyone can be an electrician. It takes training and licensing, and many people can't jump those hurdles. (Not to mention the fact that if everyone became an electrician, very few of them would get any work.)
- asteroidbelt 5y ago
  > I would not consider electricians as an example of poor people Exactly. > not anyone can be an electrician Who can't? > It takes training and licensing So? By the way, just googled, entry level electrician apprentice with zero experience (you are required to do that for some time to get your license) gets about $30K. That's not a lot, but that you can do with almost zero training, and it in several years it is significantly more. > and many people can't jump those hurdles. Maybe they can be paintworkers then. 38K of income is not as lavish as the life of electrician, but that's should be good enough who cannot get an electrician license. > Not to mention the fact that if everyone became an electrician, very few of them would get any work Truck driver, nurse, carpenter, crane operator, plumber, car mechanic, firefighter and so on. There's a lot of thing you can do with little or no investment.

pope_meat 5y ago

I'm in the bottom 50% of the population money wise, but you're right, HN is definitely full of people in the top 10%, and so literally shortwire in their brains when I say something like "it's bad enough to where cutting ones nose to spite the face is starting to make sense" Because from your position it seems absurd. From mine it seems like the only move left to make.

asteroidbelt 5y ago
> it's bad enough to where cutting ones nose to spite the face is starting to make sense What is the evidence that now is worse than say 30 years ago for the bottom 50%? It is perceived that it is worse now. But is it objectively worse?
- pope_meat 5y ago
  Cost of education Cost of housing Cost of healthcare went up. Income went down. So I guess you're right, objectively things are much better, it's just my perception of paying 80% of my income to rent that's the problem.
  - asteroidbelt 5y ago
    > Cost of education went up If you need high education, you just take credit, and pay for it with your salary which is much higher than it was 30 years ago. And if you think that you won't be able to pay for credit because it's not possible to find a decent job with liberal arts degree, then probably you don't need that education. > Cost of housing went up I suspect that's because construction workers are paid well now. So instead of studying classical literature in high school, maybe study bricklaying. > Cost of healthcare went up This is the issue, but "taxing the rich" won't solve it. It need to be properly regulated. The fact that insulin costs $100 has nothing to do with taxes for the rich people. > Income went down Seems like it is not true. There's a chart: inflation adjusted median household income. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N It goes up. > perception of paying 80% of my income to rent that's the problem Man, I don't know your situation. Sometimes people pay for something they shouldn't. Like buying a shiny new car while old car only need occasional repairs, or buying top new iphones while cheapest android is 1/10 of that. When I was young I rented a flat which costed me about 70% of income, while I could rent a room for 30% of my income, or a flat for 30% of income and two hours commute. But it didn't matter because I was young, and I would not do that now. If that's your case, you may need to reconsider your worldview. If it's not, than I don't really know your situation to comment on that.
    - pope_meat 5y ago
      https://www.marketwatch.com/story/income-share-of-bottom-50-is-collapsing-finds-researchers-including-piketty-2017-02-07 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/income-share-of-bottom-50-...
      - asteroidbelt 5y ago

kelnos 5y ago

> I'm not sure things are getting bad. Poorest people now are more rich than poorest people 30 years ago. > Like in the US now average electrician makes 70K a year. That's a lot of money. And anyone can be electrician. I would not consider electricians as an example of poor people. And no, not anyone can be an electrician. It takes training and licensing, and many people can't jump those hurdles. (Not to mention the fact that if everyone became an electrician, very few of them would get any work.)

asteroidbelt 5y ago
> I would not consider electricians as an example of poor people Exactly. > not anyone can be an electrician Who can't? > It takes training and licensing So? By the way, just googled, entry level electrician apprentice with zero experience (you are required to do that for some time to get your license) gets about $30K. That's not a lot, but that you can do with almost zero training, and it in several years it is significantly more. > and many people can't jump those hurdles. Maybe they can be paintworkers then. 38K of income is not as lavish as the life of electrician, but that's should be good enough who cannot get an electrician license. > Not to mention the fact that if everyone became an electrician, very few of them would get any work Truck driver, nurse, carpenter, crane operator, plumber, car mechanic, firefighter and so on. There's a lot of thing you can do with little or no investment.