14 ms·

FCC reaffirms $3M fine for marketing unauthorized drone transmitters

180 points by 7402 5y ago

Syonyk 5y ago
This appears to be "video streaming" style transmitters, not an ADS-B out sort of location transmitter or anything. And it seems that HobbyKing just... hoped nothing would happen. > As spelled out in ARRL’s 2017 complaint, the ARRL Laboratory had documented that the operating frequencies of these drone TV transmitters near the 1.3 GHz amateur band were dip-switch selectable for frequencies internationally assigned for use by Aeronautical Navigation, GPS, GLONASS L1, ATC Mode “S,” as well as to both the interrogation and reply frequencies used for Air Traffic Control Air-Route Surveillance “transponder” radar systems. “Transmissions from these drone TV transmitters would have caused harmful interference to these essential Navigation and ATC Radar systems, presenting a real and dangerous threat to the safety of flight,” Carlson said. That's impressively ballsy. I'm glad the FCC smacked them down pretty hard. It's not like global frequency allocations aren't well known.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- trafalgarcircle 5y ago
  Linux allows individuals to override tx frequencies and power on many devices, but at least that’s done in software. I could understand if the dips were for setting bits on a frequency divider and could allow selecting any frequency, but having them directly correlate to reserved frequencies is beyond the pale.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    >but having them directly correlate to reserved frequencies is beyond the pale. The whole point of this cheapo hardware is that it can be used for whatever just by setting switches and therefore achieves massive economies of scale. They sell the same hardware to the drone makers and the radio makers and so on. IIRC these switches were not user accessible. The manufacturer set them in the right position.
    - tonyarkles 5y ago
      Possibly, although I’ve definitely got some old Hobbyking video kit where the DIP switches are totally user accessible and can definitely go into bands they aught not. Likely not the same kit (it’s about 10 years old now) but… there’s very likely still super sketchy stuff available there.
    - duskwuff 5y ago
      > IIRC these switches were not user accessible. They were definitely user accessible in at least some of the products. Here are a couple of the devices named in the FCC complaint which obviously had exposed DIP switches: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/aomway-700tvl-cmos-hd-camera-ntsc-version-plus-5-8g-200mw-transmitter.html https://hobbyking.com/en_us/aomway-700tvl-cmos-hd-camera-nts... https://hobbyking.com/en_us/1-2ghz-mg-500mw-8ch-a-v-wireless-transmitter-module.html https://hobbyking.com/en_us/1-2ghz-mg-500mw-8ch-a-v-wireless... https://hobbyking.com/en_us/x40-l-25mw-tx-cnc-alloy-cas.html https://hobbyking.com/en_us/x40-l-25mw-tx-cnc-alloy-cas.html There were undoubtedly a number of others which could be switched between frequencies in other ways, like with a pushbutton.
      - R0b0t1 5y ago
        I still don't feel great about this. It should be up to the end user to not break the law.
        homero 5y ago
        Then people would buy phone jammers if they could easily be sold
        R0b0t1 5y ago
        Kits are already easy to buy. People don't bother buying the kits because if you use the jammer generally you are found. Occasionally pops up in the news.
        5y ago
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- jimmaswell 5y ago
  All that for a dip switch that isn't normally accessible?
- briandear 5y ago
  Wow that could have affected WAAS GPS approaches for aircraft which is rather critical stuff. (WAAS approaches allow for airplanes to descend to much lower altitudes without ground visibility. Basically the GPS equivalent of the Instrument Landing System.) And Mode S has serious implications for TCAS systems (preventing air to air collisions.) Extremely bad to be messing with those frequencies. Potentially catastrophic.
  - midev 5y ago
    > Extremely bad to be messing with those frequencies. Potentially catastrophic. If someone with a hobby electronics kit can cause that much damage, the system needs to change. Hobby projects like this can help expose the serious flaws in aircraft control, making us all safer. Security by obscurity is no security at all. Security by hoping people don't do bad things is even worse.
    - behringer 5y ago
      Youre expected not to board a plane with a bomb and youre expected to not operate equipment on wrong frequencies that interfere with others. Just because you can do something does not mean its ok to do.
      - can16358p 5y ago
        I think what the comment is about is that the system should be built safer with less security with obscurity but more actual measures. You can (partially) scan people getting onto the plane for bombs etc but it's practically very hard to pinpoint a jamming RF transmitter possibly from kilometers away from ground. Security shouldn't rely on those frequencies being clear.
      - midev 5y ago
        > Youre expected not to board a plane with a bomb And we have a lot of controls around this! Congrats! You've discovered airline security! > expected to not operate equipment on wrong frequencies that interfere with others If I can build a small electronic device, that goes through no controls, and can cause catastrophic damage, that is a HUGE problem. > Just because you can do something does not mean its ok to do. lol, you missed the point. If it's that easy to do something, the system needs to change.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > As spelled out in ARRL’s 2017 complaint, the ARRL Laboratory had documented that the operating frequencies of these drone TV transmitters near the 1.3 GHz amateur band were dip-switch selectable They weren't even pretending to hide it. The product listings showed which channels were selectable and it looks like the dip switches were easily accessible: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/1-2ghz-mg-500mw-8ch-a-v-wireless-transmitter-module.html https://hobbyking.com/en_us/1-2ghz-mg-500mw-8ch-a-v-wireless...
- quercusa 5y ago
  I suspect this bit didn't endear them to the FCC either: HobbyKing had told the FCC that it had no notice of the Commission’s authorization requirements; that the Fifth Amendment relieved HobbyKing of its duty to respond; that the forfeiture amount was inappropriate because its parent company, Indubitably, Inc., lacked the ability to pay to the Forfeiture Order; and that the Commission was time-barred from taking action against ABC Fulfillment Services LLC because it was not part of HobbyKing’s business.
  - pydry 5y ago
    Ouch. Either they had a terrible lawyer or demanded the lawyer they did have make the impossible happen.
  - MertsA 5y ago
    It's like I'm reading "Sovereign Citizen: Corporate Edition". Why did someone honestly think there was even the slightest chance of that response helping their situation? "We weren't importing, we were travelling!"
underseacables 5y ago
This is unfortunate but I’m more displeased with the ARRL. They spend millions on lobbyists and politicians, pay the President A quarter of a million a year, and they’re really not doing that much for it. The website is seriously lacking an up-to-date information about state and federal issues, and I’m very dismayed at what seems to be a lot of money spent but very little to show for it. Ive been an Extra since 2002 and I didn’t renew my membership last year. To me, a humble Ham in tornado country, ARRL just seems like a lot of people hanging on feeding at the trough.
- jquinby 5y ago
  Also an Extra. I actually delayed renewal this year, but then re-upped when I remembered that I'd been using the callsign@arrl.org email forwarded for a bunch of stuff and shelling out for one more year was easier than hunting down all the places I'd used it. I'll probably address that soon and let it go for good after this year.
- jvanderbot 5y ago
  Lobbyists is exactly what I pay them for. But other than that, a quarter million sounds huge, but that's not huge for a big, heavily-government-involved national non-profit. For my own benefit, they orchestrate the classes and testing that I used to get my license, publish excellent reference materials, etc. I'm no longer in tornado country, but in earthquake country and a bigger city, the many different HAM activities are nice to know about.
  - underseacables 5y ago
    So I started digging into this and I can’t tell what they are doing, I barely passed political science, but I went to the webpage and clicked on legislative issues and there’s nothing there. So I pulled up the report every nonprofit is required to file, and they are paying lobbyists millions of dollars. What are they lobbying for?
    - tibbetts 5y ago
      They are lobbying to maintain the status quo. I think their big fear is some politician deciding to sell off the amateur spectrum to Verizon or getting convinced by Cisco that ham radio is bad for wifi and needs to be more tightly regulated. That said, I cannot speak to whether they are efficient at their lobbying or not.
lytfyre 5y ago
Ahh, hobbyking. I used to order RC and electronics stuff from them, back before off the shelf drones became common enough that regulations ramped way up. Their checkout pipeline used to have a drop-down box for what percent of the orders value to declare on the customs documents. IIRC, the default value was 30%... It was also always interesting seeing what machinations they were using when orders of LiPo batteries would get shipped. I had a very large battery order for a workshop I ran that was shipped from HK to the west coast via Fiji post - and by the postal tracking, took the long way around, and showed up with a surprising lack of stickers related to the contents. They still have the best battery searcher in the business if you need to find pouch cells with specific dimensions. Not surprised that regulators have been catching up with them.
- Syonyk 5y ago
  > ...and showed up with a surprising lack of stickers related to the contents. Yeah... screw 'em if they're doing that. I've never ordered from them, because I really, really do not like pouch cells (pouch LiCoO2 is terrifying). I've done a lot of work with lithium packs, mostly 18650s, and was the sole supplier of rebuilt BionX ebike battery packs in North America for a few years until some other people got their rears in gear and undercut me (I was so tired of building packs by the end...). But I shipped ground. Period. The hazmat requirements for 300+Wh packs were pretty stiff, and I met them. The UPS guy out here knew me as "the battery guy," and I had to explain to any sub on the route that, yes, this was legit, yes, I have all the paperwork right there, yes, I'm registered... look, just call base, ask about "the battery guy," they'll know who it is. And since I shipped a lot to Canada, I filled out my customs forms properly, with actual value. I had a few people ask me about some "creative valuation," and... nope. Not going to screw around when sending hazmat internationally. I got out of it partly because people undercut me, partly because the requirements for shipping lithium were getting ever more strict. I'll do stuff locally now, but I deliberately didn't renew my hazmat shipping training.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    Oh my it’s the battery guy! Shipping batteries is why I stopped kitbreaking Milwaukee sets from Home Depot. Too complicated.
Ecco 5y ago
I got screwed over by HobbyKing who never let me cancel an order even though they were over a month late and still hadn’t shipped it. I’m glad they got fined, they’re definitely shady.
- Trias11 5y ago
  Chargeback. Always pay with CC
ridaj 5y ago
It's somewhat surprising for a radio amateur group to take it upon themselves to complain to the FCC about interference to a whole bunch of infrastructure-critical systems like satellite positioning, air traffic control, etc. Sounds a bit like spectrum vigilantism to me. Or was there actual harm done to these systems? You'd hope that if it was really critical there'd be more investigations by the government vs waiting for private groups to complain.
- tibbetts 5y ago
  This is kind of what the ARRL does. Amateur radio is supposed to be self-policing. They want to minimize FCC headaches from any kind of hobbyist radio, in order to maintain flexibility and tolerance.
- vvanders 5y ago
  Not really surprising, radio only works if we all play by the rules. Even a small 5w transmitter up high enough can easily cover over 100 miles. Most radio groups tend to be disaster recovery and communication adjacent so they care about infrastructure even if it's not directly on the ham bands.
- wrs 5y ago
  Making an official complaint to the appropriate government enforcement agency is the exact opposite of “vigilantism”. Vigilantism would be hams deliberately crashing the drones with jammers, or something.
  - bombcar 5y ago
    Hams have done just that - famously chasing the Russian woodpecker iirc off of frequencies they wanted to use.
    - djmips 5y ago
      For those curious I located the relevant wiki information. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duga_radar#Jamming_the_Woodpecker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duga_radar#Jamming_the_Woodpec.... There is no reference to the jamming being successful however.
annoyingnoob 5y ago
HobbyKing does not honor the CAN-SPAM Act either. I don't like companies that act like bullies.
- underseacables 5y ago
  This is good to know thank you, have they ever been confronted about this?
  - annoyingnoob 5y ago
    I had to point out the relevant parts of the CAN-SPAM Act and the potential liability before they would honor an opt-out request. They were emailing constantly and whatever opt-out mechanism wasn't working (had no effect).
- iamtheworstdev 5y ago
  They're also defendants in this landmark case - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burwell_v._Hobby_Lobby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burwell_v._Hobby_Lobby
  - semanticist 5y ago
    HobbyKing and Hobby Lobby are completely different companies. HobbyKing are based in Hong Kong and don't have retail outlets in the US (or anywhere, I think).
desine 5y ago
ARRL noted one of the channels was within an Amateur band. So they're reducing the consumer options for ARRL members and other HAMs who would be licensed to use this feature legally and correctly, with the correct channel selection. I don't hold it against them, that they chose to pursue this anyways, to keep the North American spectrum clean and correct, but it's nifty side note.
seany 5y ago
This is one of those weird things that bugs the crap out of me. I get why it's a "general" problem, but I use some of these transmitters in amateur frequencies legally, and now getting more parts is going to be a pain in the ass.
squarefoot 5y ago
I don't know how big HobbyKing is, and surely agree than the RF spectrum is a fragile limited resource that we must use properly, and therefore abuses must be punished, however $3M seems a lot. That fine could destroy a business and send home a lot of people, probably none of which have any responsibility on the matter. Did the FCC at least give HobbyKing the chance to withdraw those products?
- zaarn 5y ago
  They did. Multiple times. HobbyKing went on the ol' "You have no jurisdiction" route, or tried to. Additionally, the devices interefered with Aircraft and GPS Frequencies. If you jammed around in a less sensitive band (ie, blocked something non-vital), they might close an eye or two over it. But GPS and Airtraffic Frequencies is where any regulation agency on this planet will bring the hammer down because accidents caused by that would be quite costly in lives and money.
- wrycoder 5y ago
  Some people are surprised to learn that, when it comes to unauthorized emissions, you don't mess with the FCC. They will hammer you.
- kayfox 5y ago
  The FCC doesn't hand out big fines to companies that go "oops, my bad, heres how I am fixing it" they hand out big fines to companies that refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem and refuse to correct it. HobbyKing refused to acknowledge the issue, the FCC's jurisdiction, or make any attempt to resolve this issue, so they get a big fine. The FCC probably doesn't expect this fine to be paid, instead its part of an effort to block the importation of this stuff into the US.

180 points by 7402 5y ago

This appears to be "video streaming" style transmitters, not an ADS-B out sort of location transmitter or anything. And it seems that HobbyKing just... hoped nothing would happen. > As spelled out in ARRL’s 2017 complaint, the ARRL Laboratory had documented that the operating frequencies of these drone TV transmitters near the 1.3 GHz amateur band were dip-switch selectable for frequencies internationally assigned for use by Aeronautical Navigation, GPS, GLONASS L1, ATC Mode “S,” as well as to both the interrogation and reply frequencies used for Air Traffic Control Air-Route Surveillance “transponder” radar systems. “Transmissions from these drone TV transmitters would have caused harmful interference to these essential Navigation and ATC Radar systems, presenting a real and dangerous threat to the safety of flight,” Carlson said. That's impressively ballsy. I'm glad the FCC smacked them down pretty hard. It's not like global frequency allocations aren't well known.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
trafalgarcircle 5y ago
Linux allows individuals to override tx frequencies and power on many devices, but at least that’s done in software. I could understand if the dips were for setting bits on a frequency divider and could allow selecting any frequency, but having them directly correlate to reserved frequencies is beyond the pale.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  >but having them directly correlate to reserved frequencies is beyond the pale. The whole point of this cheapo hardware is that it can be used for whatever just by setting switches and therefore achieves massive economies of scale. They sell the same hardware to the drone makers and the radio makers and so on. IIRC these switches were not user accessible. The manufacturer set them in the right position.
  - tonyarkles 5y ago
    Possibly, although I’ve definitely got some old Hobbyking video kit where the DIP switches are totally user accessible and can definitely go into bands they aught not. Likely not the same kit (it’s about 10 years old now) but… there’s very likely still super sketchy stuff available there.
  - duskwuff 5y ago
    > IIRC these switches were not user accessible. They were definitely user accessible in at least some of the products. Here are a couple of the devices named in the FCC complaint which obviously had exposed DIP switches: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/aomway-700tvl-cmos-hd-camera-ntsc-version-plus-5-8g-200mw-transmitter.html https://hobbyking.com/en_us/aomway-700tvl-cmos-hd-camera-nts... https://hobbyking.com/en_us/1-2ghz-mg-500mw-8ch-a-v-wireless-transmitter-module.html https://hobbyking.com/en_us/1-2ghz-mg-500mw-8ch-a-v-wireless... https://hobbyking.com/en_us/x40-l-25mw-tx-cnc-alloy-cas.html https://hobbyking.com/en_us/x40-l-25mw-tx-cnc-alloy-cas.html There were undoubtedly a number of others which could be switched between frequencies in other ways, like with a pushbutton.
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      I still don't feel great about this. It should be up to the end user to not break the law.
      - homero 5y ago
        Then people would buy phone jammers if they could easily be sold
        R0b0t1 5y ago
        Kits are already easy to buy. People don't bother buying the kits because if you use the jammer generally you are found. Occasionally pops up in the news.
        5y ago
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
jimmaswell 5y ago
All that for a dip switch that isn't normally accessible?
briandear 5y ago
Wow that could have affected WAAS GPS approaches for aircraft which is rather critical stuff. (WAAS approaches allow for airplanes to descend to much lower altitudes without ground visibility. Basically the GPS equivalent of the Instrument Landing System.) And Mode S has serious implications for TCAS systems (preventing air to air collisions.) Extremely bad to be messing with those frequencies. Potentially catastrophic.
- midev 5y ago
  > Extremely bad to be messing with those frequencies. Potentially catastrophic. If someone with a hobby electronics kit can cause that much damage, the system needs to change. Hobby projects like this can help expose the serious flaws in aircraft control, making us all safer. Security by obscurity is no security at all. Security by hoping people don't do bad things is even worse.
  - behringer 5y ago
    Youre expected not to board a plane with a bomb and youre expected to not operate equipment on wrong frequencies that interfere with others. Just because you can do something does not mean its ok to do.
    - can16358p 5y ago
      I think what the comment is about is that the system should be built safer with less security with obscurity but more actual measures. You can (partially) scan people getting onto the plane for bombs etc but it's practically very hard to pinpoint a jamming RF transmitter possibly from kilometers away from ground. Security shouldn't rely on those frequencies being clear.
    - midev 5y ago
      > Youre expected not to board a plane with a bomb And we have a lot of controls around this! Congrats! You've discovered airline security! > expected to not operate equipment on wrong frequencies that interfere with others If I can build a small electronic device, that goes through no controls, and can cause catastrophic damage, that is a HUGE problem. > Just because you can do something does not mean its ok to do. lol, you missed the point. If it's that easy to do something, the system needs to change.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> As spelled out in ARRL’s 2017 complaint, the ARRL Laboratory had documented that the operating frequencies of these drone TV transmitters near the 1.3 GHz amateur band were dip-switch selectable They weren't even pretending to hide it. The product listings showed which channels were selectable and it looks like the dip switches were easily accessible: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/1-2ghz-mg-500mw-8ch-a-v-wireless-transmitter-module.html https://hobbyking.com/en_us/1-2ghz-mg-500mw-8ch-a-v-wireless...
quercusa 5y ago
I suspect this bit didn't endear them to the FCC either: HobbyKing had told the FCC that it had no notice of the Commission’s authorization requirements; that the Fifth Amendment relieved HobbyKing of its duty to respond; that the forfeiture amount was inappropriate because its parent company, Indubitably, Inc., lacked the ability to pay to the Forfeiture Order; and that the Commission was time-barred from taking action against ABC Fulfillment Services LLC because it was not part of HobbyKing’s business.
- pydry 5y ago
  Ouch. Either they had a terrible lawyer or demanded the lawyer they did have make the impossible happen.
- MertsA 5y ago
  It's like I'm reading "Sovereign Citizen: Corporate Edition". Why did someone honestly think there was even the slightest chance of that response helping their situation? "We weren't importing, we were travelling!"

underseacables 5y ago

This is unfortunate but I’m more displeased with the ARRL. They spend millions on lobbyists and politicians, pay the President A quarter of a million a year, and they’re really not doing that much for it. The website is seriously lacking an up-to-date information about state and federal issues, and I’m very dismayed at what seems to be a lot of money spent but very little to show for it. Ive been an Extra since 2002 and I didn’t renew my membership last year. To me, a humble Ham in tornado country, ARRL just seems like a lot of people hanging on feeding at the trough.

jquinby 5y ago
Also an Extra. I actually delayed renewal this year, but then re-upped when I remembered that I'd been using the callsign@arrl.org email forwarded for a bunch of stuff and shelling out for one more year was easier than hunting down all the places I'd used it. I'll probably address that soon and let it go for good after this year.
jvanderbot 5y ago
Lobbyists is exactly what I pay them for. But other than that, a quarter million sounds huge, but that's not huge for a big, heavily-government-involved national non-profit. For my own benefit, they orchestrate the classes and testing that I used to get my license, publish excellent reference materials, etc. I'm no longer in tornado country, but in earthquake country and a bigger city, the many different HAM activities are nice to know about.
- underseacables 5y ago
  So I started digging into this and I can’t tell what they are doing, I barely passed political science, but I went to the webpage and clicked on legislative issues and there’s nothing there. So I pulled up the report every nonprofit is required to file, and they are paying lobbyists millions of dollars. What are they lobbying for?
  - tibbetts 5y ago
    They are lobbying to maintain the status quo. I think their big fear is some politician deciding to sell off the amateur spectrum to Verizon or getting convinced by Cisco that ham radio is bad for wifi and needs to be more tightly regulated. That said, I cannot speak to whether they are efficient at their lobbying or not.

lytfyre 5y ago

Ahh, hobbyking. I used to order RC and electronics stuff from them, back before off the shelf drones became common enough that regulations ramped way up. Their checkout pipeline used to have a drop-down box for what percent of the orders value to declare on the customs documents. IIRC, the default value was 30%... It was also always interesting seeing what machinations they were using when orders of LiPo batteries would get shipped. I had a very large battery order for a workshop I ran that was shipped from HK to the west coast via Fiji post - and by the postal tracking, took the long way around, and showed up with a surprising lack of stickers related to the contents. They still have the best battery searcher in the business if you need to find pouch cells with specific dimensions. Not surprised that regulators have been catching up with them.

Syonyk 5y ago
> ...and showed up with a surprising lack of stickers related to the contents. Yeah... screw 'em if they're doing that. I've never ordered from them, because I really, really do not like pouch cells (pouch LiCoO2 is terrifying). I've done a lot of work with lithium packs, mostly 18650s, and was the sole supplier of rebuilt BionX ebike battery packs in North America for a few years until some other people got their rears in gear and undercut me (I was so tired of building packs by the end...). But I shipped ground. Period. The hazmat requirements for 300+Wh packs were pretty stiff, and I met them. The UPS guy out here knew me as "the battery guy," and I had to explain to any sub on the route that, yes, this was legit, yes, I have all the paperwork right there, yes, I'm registered... look, just call base, ask about "the battery guy," they'll know who it is. And since I shipped a lot to Canada, I filled out my customs forms properly, with actual value. I had a few people ask me about some "creative valuation," and... nope. Not going to screw around when sending hazmat internationally. I got out of it partly because people undercut me, partly because the requirements for shipping lithium were getting ever more strict. I'll do stuff locally now, but I deliberately didn't renew my hazmat shipping training.
- bombcar 5y ago
  Oh my it’s the battery guy! Shipping batteries is why I stopped kitbreaking Milwaukee sets from Home Depot. Too complicated.

Ecco 5y ago

I got screwed over by HobbyKing who never let me cancel an order even though they were over a month late and still hadn’t shipped it. I’m glad they got fined, they’re definitely shady.

Trias11 5y ago
Chargeback. Always pay with CC

ridaj 5y ago

It's somewhat surprising for a radio amateur group to take it upon themselves to complain to the FCC about interference to a whole bunch of infrastructure-critical systems like satellite positioning, air traffic control, etc. Sounds a bit like spectrum vigilantism to me. Or was there actual harm done to these systems? You'd hope that if it was really critical there'd be more investigations by the government vs waiting for private groups to complain.

tibbetts 5y ago
This is kind of what the ARRL does. Amateur radio is supposed to be self-policing. They want to minimize FCC headaches from any kind of hobbyist radio, in order to maintain flexibility and tolerance.
vvanders 5y ago
Not really surprising, radio only works if we all play by the rules. Even a small 5w transmitter up high enough can easily cover over 100 miles. Most radio groups tend to be disaster recovery and communication adjacent so they care about infrastructure even if it's not directly on the ham bands.
wrs 5y ago
Making an official complaint to the appropriate government enforcement agency is the exact opposite of “vigilantism”. Vigilantism would be hams deliberately crashing the drones with jammers, or something.
- bombcar 5y ago
  Hams have done just that - famously chasing the Russian woodpecker iirc off of frequencies they wanted to use.
  - djmips 5y ago
    For those curious I located the relevant wiki information. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duga_radar#Jamming_the_Woodpecker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duga_radar#Jamming_the_Woodpec.... There is no reference to the jamming being successful however.

annoyingnoob 5y ago

HobbyKing does not honor the CAN-SPAM Act either. I don't like companies that act like bullies.

underseacables 5y ago
This is good to know thank you, have they ever been confronted about this?
- annoyingnoob 5y ago
  I had to point out the relevant parts of the CAN-SPAM Act and the potential liability before they would honor an opt-out request. They were emailing constantly and whatever opt-out mechanism wasn't working (had no effect).
iamtheworstdev 5y ago
They're also defendants in this landmark case - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burwell_v._Hobby_Lobby https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burwell_v._Hobby_Lobby
- semanticist 5y ago
  HobbyKing and Hobby Lobby are completely different companies. HobbyKing are based in Hong Kong and don't have retail outlets in the US (or anywhere, I think).

desine 5y ago

ARRL noted one of the channels was within an Amateur band. So they're reducing the consumer options for ARRL members and other HAMs who would be licensed to use this feature legally and correctly, with the correct channel selection. I don't hold it against them, that they chose to pursue this anyways, to keep the North American spectrum clean and correct, but it's nifty side note.

seany 5y ago

This is one of those weird things that bugs the crap out of me. I get why it's a "general" problem, but I use some of these transmitters in amateur frequencies legally, and now getting more parts is going to be a pain in the ass.

squarefoot 5y ago

I don't know how big HobbyKing is, and surely agree than the RF spectrum is a fragile limited resource that we must use properly, and therefore abuses must be punished, however $3M seems a lot. That fine could destroy a business and send home a lot of people, probably none of which have any responsibility on the matter. Did the FCC at least give HobbyKing the chance to withdraw those products?

zaarn 5y ago
They did. Multiple times. HobbyKing went on the ol' "You have no jurisdiction" route, or tried to. Additionally, the devices interefered with Aircraft and GPS Frequencies. If you jammed around in a less sensitive band (ie, blocked something non-vital), they might close an eye or two over it. But GPS and Airtraffic Frequencies is where any regulation agency on this planet will bring the hammer down because accidents caused by that would be quite costly in lives and money.
wrycoder 5y ago
Some people are surprised to learn that, when it comes to unauthorized emissions, you don't mess with the FCC. They will hammer you.
kayfox 5y ago
The FCC doesn't hand out big fines to companies that go "oops, my bad, heres how I am fixing it" they hand out big fines to companies that refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem and refuse to correct it. HobbyKing refused to acknowledge the issue, the FCC's jurisdiction, or make any attempt to resolve this issue, so they get a big fine. The FCC probably doesn't expect this fine to be paid, instead its part of an effort to block the importation of this stuff into the US.