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>>Secondly, communities do need immune systems. If you don't enforce some set of norms, everything goes downhill quickly. I don't know about you, but I don't li

>>Secondly, communities do need immune systems. If you don't enforce some set of norms, everything goes downhill quickly. I don't know about you, but I don't like it when trolls come onto Hacker News and post incendiary nonsense for the sole purpose of starting flamewars, and I imagine queer fiction communities don't appreciate it either. Where do communities come from and when does something become a community? All I've observed is that individuals, for whatever reason, build a group around a shared liking or a shared hatred, not a formal vote. In a mob, verbally attacking a person of interest is normal. In fiction communities verbally attacking a subject of interest is normal, (even if the subject is happens to be what should be considered normal). While it's important for individuals to learn not to feed the trolls, there has to be room for disagreement. Even if it's vociferous disagreement.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago
The trouble is of course that communities form organically, and so they frequently need to be policed organically. And I'm not convinced the line between a "mob" and a "grass roots movement" actually exists. Just for the purposes of illustration: Were the protests in Egypt a decade ago, or in Hong Kong more recently, "mobs"? Why, and who decides?
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  >>The trouble is of course that communities form organically, and so they frequently need to be policed organically. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? >>And I'm not convinced the line between a "mob" and a "grass roots movement" actually exists. To which I agree. In their mechanics there is little difference between one group and other. Just like there's little difference between soldiers and mercenaires. >>Just for the purposes of illustration: Were the protests in Egypt a decade ago, or in Hong Kong more recently, "mobs"? Why, and who decides? They are mobs to people who, rightly or wrongly, wanted to discredit them (respectively the Mubarek regime and the Chinese government). A stronger set of examples you could have compared are how the American news organizations reported the more violent elements of the George Floyd protests (statue topplings, burglary, arson, etc.) and the January 6 riots. But if you mean in an objective sense, I'm asking the same questions as you are. Those two questions are the determining factors to what a community will be immune from and what "norms" to consider appropriate. But they have to assessed on an individual level lest one creates a cult or a dictatorship.
  - Wowfunhappy 5y ago
    > But if you mean in an objective sense, I'm asking the same questions as you are. Those two questions are the determining factors to what a community will be immune from and what "norms" to consider appropriate. Right! So I think we agree. But for that reason, I don't think the situation is as simple as "stop supporting mobs", as Jiro's comment put it.
    - Dracophoenix 5y ago
      >>Right! So I think we agree. Kind of. I'm just not sure if what you mean by norms is as a moral prescription or as a non-binding longitudinal study into what makes successful group dynamics. Your original statement implied the former. Though I may have read too much into it.
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  > Just for the purposes of illustration: Were the protests in Egypt a decade ago, or in Hong Kong more recently, "mobs"? Why, and who decides? They look the same, so an honest mob could be the same as a grassroots movement. My personal rule is: if you're joining others to harm someone, it's a mob. If you're joining others to risk yourself for a cause, it's a grassroots movement. Hong Kong protests looked like grassroots movements, lynching someone, physically or virtually, is a mob. The US Capitol attack was a mob. I have no idea how to classify flash mobs that just dance, though.

Wowfunhappy 5y ago

The trouble is of course that communities form organically, and so they frequently need to be policed organically. And I'm not convinced the line between a "mob" and a "grass roots movement" actually exists. Just for the purposes of illustration: Were the protests in Egypt a decade ago, or in Hong Kong more recently, "mobs"? Why, and who decides?

Dracophoenix 5y ago
>>The trouble is of course that communities form organically, and so they frequently need to be policed organically. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? >>And I'm not convinced the line between a "mob" and a "grass roots movement" actually exists. To which I agree. In their mechanics there is little difference between one group and other. Just like there's little difference between soldiers and mercenaires. >>Just for the purposes of illustration: Were the protests in Egypt a decade ago, or in Hong Kong more recently, "mobs"? Why, and who decides? They are mobs to people who, rightly or wrongly, wanted to discredit them (respectively the Mubarek regime and the Chinese government). A stronger set of examples you could have compared are how the American news organizations reported the more violent elements of the George Floyd protests (statue topplings, burglary, arson, etc.) and the January 6 riots. But if you mean in an objective sense, I'm asking the same questions as you are. Those two questions are the determining factors to what a community will be immune from and what "norms" to consider appropriate. But they have to assessed on an individual level lest one creates a cult or a dictatorship.
- Wowfunhappy 5y ago
  > But if you mean in an objective sense, I'm asking the same questions as you are. Those two questions are the determining factors to what a community will be immune from and what "norms" to consider appropriate. Right! So I think we agree. But for that reason, I don't think the situation is as simple as "stop supporting mobs", as Jiro's comment put it.
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    >>Right! So I think we agree. Kind of. I'm just not sure if what you mean by norms is as a moral prescription or as a non-binding longitudinal study into what makes successful group dynamics. Your original statement implied the former. Though I may have read too much into it.
ASalazarMX 5y ago
> Just for the purposes of illustration: Were the protests in Egypt a decade ago, or in Hong Kong more recently, "mobs"? Why, and who decides? They look the same, so an honest mob could be the same as a grassroots movement. My personal rule is: if you're joining others to harm someone, it's a mob. If you're joining others to risk yourself for a cause, it's a grassroots movement. Hong Kong protests looked like grassroots movements, lynching someone, physically or virtually, is a mob. The US Capitol attack was a mob. I have no idea how to classify flash mobs that just dance, though.