4 ms·

> to bullshit us that any new union (and it's negotiated contract) isn't going to end up looking a lot like the unions around it Any new organization in human

> to bullshit us that any new union (and it's negotiated contract) isn't going to end up looking a lot like the unions around it Any new organization in human society is going to be the same as previous ones? Does this apply to unions only? Or no progress ever happens in any organization?

sokoloff 5y ago
It's true that past performance is no guarantee of future results. Nevertheless, we are well-advised to examine the history and past performance when seeking to estimate future results.
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  It's funny to hear such talk even as we are all members of an industry that has reinvented everything from taxis to space rocketry, payment systems to currency. Perhaps this isn't the union that will do it, but surely the tech industry can find a way to innovate on unions and labor power. Why everything else and not that?
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    Perhaps we already have disrupted the traditional employer<->employee power dynamic and the re-invention of employment bargaining doesn't look exactly like the old unions? SWEs have more bargaining power than ever right now (at least in the US, which is the market I'm most familiar with) .
    - Apocryphon 5y ago
      SWEs have a lot of bargaining power because at the moment, it is an occupation in hot demand. That's not qualitatively different from any number of highly-sought after professions throughout history. That's not really a fundamental disruption and itself will eventually be disrupted by market forces. What we see is the summer before the fall.
    - goodpoint 5y ago
      > Perhaps we already have disrupted the traditional employer<->employee power dynamic Care to describe what disruption happened and how? Software developers contracts seem pretty similar to any other office worker. The only big change in employment in the last 15 years happened outside of software development: the gig/sharing economy. And it's a huge step backwards.
      - sokoloff 5y ago
        Most office workers do not get options or RSUs in their company. Most office workers cannot set a flag on their LinkedIn profile that says "looking for work", get hounded by recruiters, and land another job, with higher pay, a stock grant, and signing bonus, and start the new job next month.
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        > Most office workers cannot set a flag on their LinkedIn profile that says "looking for work", get hounded by recruiters, and land another job, with higher pay, a stock grant, and signing bonus, and start the new job next month. It's nice to have your role in high demand, but all good things must come to an end.
      - goodpoint 5y ago
        > Most office workers do not get options 1) Plenty of people in finance, lawyers, and so on have high salary and excellent conditions. Many had highly paid jobs in the same fields 50 years ago. This is nothing close with "disrupting the traditional employer<->employee power dynamic". 2) An this point it's really difficult to assume that you are arguing in good faith.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

sokoloff 5y ago

It's true that past performance is no guarantee of future results. Nevertheless, we are well-advised to examine the history and past performance when seeking to estimate future results.

Apocryphon 5y ago
It's funny to hear such talk even as we are all members of an industry that has reinvented everything from taxis to space rocketry, payment systems to currency. Perhaps this isn't the union that will do it, but surely the tech industry can find a way to innovate on unions and labor power. Why everything else and not that?
- sokoloff 5y ago
  Perhaps we already have disrupted the traditional employer<->employee power dynamic and the re-invention of employment bargaining doesn't look exactly like the old unions? SWEs have more bargaining power than ever right now (at least in the US, which is the market I'm most familiar with) .
  - Apocryphon 5y ago
    SWEs have a lot of bargaining power because at the moment, it is an occupation in hot demand. That's not qualitatively different from any number of highly-sought after professions throughout history. That's not really a fundamental disruption and itself will eventually be disrupted by market forces. What we see is the summer before the fall.
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    > Perhaps we already have disrupted the traditional employer<->employee power dynamic Care to describe what disruption happened and how? Software developers contracts seem pretty similar to any other office worker. The only big change in employment in the last 15 years happened outside of software development: the gig/sharing economy. And it's a huge step backwards.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      Most office workers do not get options or RSUs in their company. Most office workers cannot set a flag on their LinkedIn profile that says "looking for work", get hounded by recruiters, and land another job, with higher pay, a stock grant, and signing bonus, and start the new job next month.
      - Apocryphon 5y ago
        > Most office workers cannot set a flag on their LinkedIn profile that says "looking for work", get hounded by recruiters, and land another job, with higher pay, a stock grant, and signing bonus, and start the new job next month. It's nice to have your role in high demand, but all good things must come to an end.
    - goodpoint 5y ago
      > Most office workers do not get options 1) Plenty of people in finance, lawyers, and so on have high salary and excellent conditions. Many had highly paid jobs in the same fields 50 years ago. This is nothing close with "disrupting the traditional employer<->employee power dynamic". 2) An this point it's really difficult to assume that you are arguing in good faith.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]