37 ms·

I don’t have much experience with unions. Here in Norway they seem to be common and a couple of my colleagues are union members. Employment is not “at-will” and

I don’t have much experience with unions. Here in Norway they seem to be common and a couple of my colleagues are union members. Employment is not “at-will” and so employees already have a lot of rights. From what I understand, the benefits of joining a union are more for salary negotiation, housing loans, and other life benefits. I’d be interested to learn more from anyone who has experience with unions in Norway.

dominotw 5y ago
> the benefits of joining a union are more for salary negotiation, USA has no unions and the highest pay for software engineers.
- triceratops 5y ago
  Correlation != causation. American actors and athletes have unions. American actors and athletes are among the highest paid in the world.
  - dominotw 5y ago
    I wasn't implying that lack of unions is the cause of high pay, just that unions are not a prerequisite.
- ngngngng 5y ago
  The exception that proves the rule
- runarberg 5y ago
  Pay isn’t everything. There is also sick leave, payed vacation time, parental leave, job safety and security, privacy guarantees etc. USA software engineers are lacking in all of these. Many countries in Europe have those labor benefits as national law and unions are more about enforcing these rights, and protecting the workers from violation of them.
  - dominotw 5y ago
    > USA software engineers are lacking in all of these. My last two companies gave me 6 months each for parental leave. I also took a lot of sick time. Agree with vacation time though, could be better. > job safety and security, Job market in USA for engineers has been really good. Most software engineers i know have 'job safety' in a sense that they can find a job in a couple of weeks or couple of months at most. But randomly getting fired isn't super common from what i've seen.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  There are slim pickings for anyone who doesn't happen to be a skilled profession such as a software engineer.
goodpoint 5y ago
> Employment is not “at-will” and so employees already have a lot of rights "at-will" employment is exceedingly rare in developed countries outside of the US. Not having "at-will" does not automatically guarantees "a lot of rights".
- adreamingsoul 5y ago
  Good point.
dougmany 5y ago
One aspect that is often overlooked is the possibility of having labor represented at the executive level. The people doing the work have good idea about how to improve the product or what changes will be bad for the product. I always heard that unions leads to greater quality and I think it is because that greater voice lets you push back when management askes you to cut corners.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

dominotw 5y ago

> the benefits of joining a union are more for salary negotiation, USA has no unions and the highest pay for software engineers.

triceratops 5y ago
Correlation != causation. American actors and athletes have unions. American actors and athletes are among the highest paid in the world.
- dominotw 5y ago
  I wasn't implying that lack of unions is the cause of high pay, just that unions are not a prerequisite.
ngngngng 5y ago
The exception that proves the rule
runarberg 5y ago
Pay isn’t everything. There is also sick leave, payed vacation time, parental leave, job safety and security, privacy guarantees etc. USA software engineers are lacking in all of these. Many countries in Europe have those labor benefits as national law and unions are more about enforcing these rights, and protecting the workers from violation of them.
- dominotw 5y ago
  > USA software engineers are lacking in all of these. My last two companies gave me 6 months each for parental leave. I also took a lot of sick time. Agree with vacation time though, could be better. > job safety and security, Job market in USA for engineers has been really good. Most software engineers i know have 'job safety' in a sense that they can find a job in a couple of weeks or couple of months at most. But randomly getting fired isn't super common from what i've seen.
selfhoster11 5y ago
There are slim pickings for anyone who doesn't happen to be a skilled profession such as a software engineer.

goodpoint 5y ago

> Employment is not “at-will” and so employees already have a lot of rights "at-will" employment is exceedingly rare in developed countries outside of the US. Not having "at-will" does not automatically guarantees "a lot of rights".

adreamingsoul 5y ago
Good point.

dougmany 5y ago

One aspect that is often overlooked is the possibility of having labor represented at the executive level. The people doing the work have good idea about how to improve the product or what changes will be bad for the product. I always heard that unions leads to greater quality and I think it is because that greater voice lets you push back when management askes you to cut corners.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]