29 ms·

Should savvy readers interpret all of their principles as Orwellian doublespeak? Seems like selecting leaders who are gullible enough to believe these are all

by cwkoss 5y ago

Should savvy readers interpret all of their principles as Orwellian doublespeak? Seems like selecting leaders who are gullible enough to believe these are all already true about Amazon would be a useful technique for screening out critical thinkers who would argue against immoral business decisions.

HWR_14 5y ago
You don't bother to list new principles if you're already living up to them. Charitably, they are an attempt to refocus the company so these are lived up to in the future. Cynically, they are an attempt to use words to avoid needing to change anything in how Amazon operates. With a new CEO, the more charitable version seems not impossible.
- mosdave 5y ago
  > You don't bother to list new principles if you're already living up to them. ah, ok, now Don't Be Evil makes more sense
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    Don't Be Evil was always on the cynical, "words over actions" side.
    - romwell 5y ago
      It wasn't always that way. It's had a pretty good run. Fun fact: they scrapped that motto without fanfare just around the time the company went full speed towards where it's going now. Google hasn't listed Don't Be Evil as a principle in many years now.
  - romwell 5y ago
    Don't Be Evil wasn't a new principle. It was a foundational one, on which the company grew. That's why it was scrapped, and the following new principles were listed: * Respect the opportunity (wtf?) * Respect the user (lol) * Respect each other (ahahaha) Hope it makes sense now :)
kesselvon 5y ago
Leadership principles aren't worth anything; it's just nice PR. It's like a shark telling you it's gone vegan.
- cle 5y ago
  Amazon uses leadership principles extensively internally when doing performance evaluations and promotions, and they are baked into nearly every decision, both product and technical. Of course much of this depends on one's interpretation of the principles, but they are definitely not "just nice PR".
  - stonogo 5y ago
    Which leadership principle leads to inventory comingling and listing hijacks? Actually typing that makes it sound snarky, but it's a real question. These are real problems and I'm interested in the reason they aren't top priorities to end, despite all the trouble they've caused. I assume there's some value behind the decisions that are made, and I'm curious to know what that is.
    - lolpython 5y ago
      If there's a flaw in the façade of a house, don't blame the foundation.
  - kesselvon 5y ago
    Which leadership principles are about having their warehouse employees urinate in bottles?
    - cle 5y ago
      I'd speculate that "customer obsession" and "insist on the highest standards" are used to justify many decisions that are hard on employees. Now there is a counterbalance to those.
      - 5y ago
adolph 5y ago
In the Gervais Principle sense: Loser: principles are Orwellian doublespeak Clueless: believe the principles Sociopath: principles as needed for my advantage https://philosophyinhell.substack.com/p/sociopaths-clueless-and-losers-in https://philosophyinhell.substack.com/p/sociopaths-clueless-... “Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well I have others.” ― Groucho Marx https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1185-those-are-my-principles-and-if-you-don-t-like-them-well https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1185-those-are-my-principle...
deleted 5y ago
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by cwkoss 5y ago

HWR_14 5y ago

You don't bother to list new principles if you're already living up to them. Charitably, they are an attempt to refocus the company so these are lived up to in the future. Cynically, they are an attempt to use words to avoid needing to change anything in how Amazon operates. With a new CEO, the more charitable version seems not impossible.

mosdave 5y ago
> You don't bother to list new principles if you're already living up to them. ah, ok, now Don't Be Evil makes more sense
- HWR_14 5y ago
  Don't Be Evil was always on the cynical, "words over actions" side.
  - romwell 5y ago
    It wasn't always that way. It's had a pretty good run. Fun fact: they scrapped that motto without fanfare just around the time the company went full speed towards where it's going now. Google hasn't listed Don't Be Evil as a principle in many years now.
- romwell 5y ago
  Don't Be Evil wasn't a new principle. It was a foundational one, on which the company grew. That's why it was scrapped, and the following new principles were listed: * Respect the opportunity (wtf?) * Respect the user (lol) * Respect each other (ahahaha) Hope it makes sense now :)

kesselvon 5y ago

Leadership principles aren't worth anything; it's just nice PR. It's like a shark telling you it's gone vegan.

cle 5y ago
Amazon uses leadership principles extensively internally when doing performance evaluations and promotions, and they are baked into nearly every decision, both product and technical. Of course much of this depends on one's interpretation of the principles, but they are definitely not "just nice PR".
- stonogo 5y ago
  Which leadership principle leads to inventory comingling and listing hijacks? Actually typing that makes it sound snarky, but it's a real question. These are real problems and I'm interested in the reason they aren't top priorities to end, despite all the trouble they've caused. I assume there's some value behind the decisions that are made, and I'm curious to know what that is.
  - lolpython 5y ago
    If there's a flaw in the façade of a house, don't blame the foundation.
- kesselvon 5y ago
  Which leadership principles are about having their warehouse employees urinate in bottles?
  - cle 5y ago
    I'd speculate that "customer obsession" and "insist on the highest standards" are used to justify many decisions that are hard on employees. Now there is a counterbalance to those.
    - 5y ago

adolph 5y ago

In the Gervais Principle sense: Loser: principles are Orwellian doublespeak Clueless: believe the principles Sociopath: principles as needed for my advantage https://philosophyinhell.substack.com/p/sociopaths-clueless-and-losers-in https://philosophyinhell.substack.com/p/sociopaths-clueless-... “Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...well I have others.” ― Groucho Marx https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1185-those-are-my-principles-and-if-you-don-t-like-them-well https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/1185-those-are-my-principle...

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]