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I am almost halfway through, but have halted several times due to unhappiness/outrage at the hubris... To me, it reads equivalent to "most people are too dumb t

I am almost halfway through, but have halted several times due to unhappiness/outrage at the hubris... To me, it reads equivalent to "most people are too dumb to know what's best for them, government and corporations have a duty to trick them into what they know is right behavior and values." For me, it really taps into the terrible misfortune caused by those who think they are smart enough to attempt to enforce how other people should live/behave.

pizza 5y ago
Yes I agree. In some respects it's quite a malicious, misanthropic read. I encourage everyone to take a look, though. I also think that more and more, I disagree with the book's outlook that people are more or less like putty and can be bent into doing anything you want - I've come to see people as strong in their fundamental convictions yet open to things they don't have any fundamental disagreements with. And more than willing to let you guide them in the direction of things they already wanted. Sort of an Adam Curtis outlook I guess.
kaycebasques 5y ago
It's interesting that we had such different takes on it. To me Bernays did somewhat of a public service by letting the genie out of the bottle and sharing these ideas publicly. Whether or not we like it, it's happening, and by writing a book about it he made it more possible for society at large to detect and counter these tactics. Of course I know that he was in this system and used these tactics himself for wealth and power. He probably wrote the book to further his own name. But he may have legitimately had the public interest in mind, also. > The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.
inglor_cz 5y ago
"most people are too dumb to know what's best for them, government and corporations have a duty to trick them into what they know is right behavior and values." This attitude is what makes me wary of the current top-down attempts to rein in misinformation on the web. There is a visible assumption that people are not to be trusted and must be lead somewhere. If necessary, by a bit of force. (Deletions, bans.) Trading misinformation for a nanny-knows-best authority that manipulates you into its preferred position is not much of a trade at all. Either we accept diversity of humanity (including morons), or we will edge our societies towards benevolent informational autocracy that won't stay benevolent forever. I strongly prefer the former, dealing with morons, even though it is not pleasant.
- mcshay79 5y ago
  There has always been a war on information, it's just more in the open now. Clandestine organizations have kept heavily guarded secrets for millenia and the democratization of communication via the internet is now being clamped down through censorship in the form of shadow-banning, as well as both broad and targeted espionage AKA intellligence.
samhh 5y ago
One could argue that the effectiveness of propaganda that stems from this viewpoint proves its premise. Whether that makes propaganda of any given form justifiable is another matter.

pizza 5y ago

Yes I agree. In some respects it's quite a malicious, misanthropic read. I encourage everyone to take a look, though. I also think that more and more, I disagree with the book's outlook that people are more or less like putty and can be bent into doing anything you want - I've come to see people as strong in their fundamental convictions yet open to things they don't have any fundamental disagreements with. And more than willing to let you guide them in the direction of things they already wanted. Sort of an Adam Curtis outlook I guess.

kaycebasques 5y ago

It's interesting that we had such different takes on it. To me Bernays did somewhat of a public service by letting the genie out of the bottle and sharing these ideas publicly. Whether or not we like it, it's happening, and by writing a book about it he made it more possible for society at large to detect and counter these tactics. Of course I know that he was in this system and used these tactics himself for wealth and power. He probably wrote the book to further his own name. But he may have legitimately had the public interest in mind, also. > The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.

inglor_cz 5y ago

"most people are too dumb to know what's best for them, government and corporations have a duty to trick them into what they know is right behavior and values." This attitude is what makes me wary of the current top-down attempts to rein in misinformation on the web. There is a visible assumption that people are not to be trusted and must be lead somewhere. If necessary, by a bit of force. (Deletions, bans.) Trading misinformation for a nanny-knows-best authority that manipulates you into its preferred position is not much of a trade at all. Either we accept diversity of humanity (including morons), or we will edge our societies towards benevolent informational autocracy that won't stay benevolent forever. I strongly prefer the former, dealing with morons, even though it is not pleasant.

mcshay79 5y ago
There has always been a war on information, it's just more in the open now. Clandestine organizations have kept heavily guarded secrets for millenia and the democratization of communication via the internet is now being clamped down through censorship in the form of shadow-banning, as well as both broad and targeted espionage AKA intellligence.

samhh 5y ago

One could argue that the effectiveness of propaganda that stems from this viewpoint proves its premise. Whether that makes propaganda of any given form justifiable is another matter.