5 ms·

If someone can do what I do here in SV for half the price or less but do it just as well or even better but else where in the world, I don't feel how I'm entitl

If someone can do what I do here in SV for half the price or less but do it just as well or even better but else where in the world, I don't feel how I'm entitled to my current salary. It's a bit hypocritical for us to bemoan this when software engineers in SV also automated people in other industries out of jobs. People outside of SV, outside of tech, and the US are people too. Don't they also deserve a chance at prosperity and contribution to tech and innovations? I don't know why a fellow software engineer in Mexico shouldn't have a shot at the same jobs as we do here in SV. My company has started hiring engineers in the Midwest since the pandemic started and they've been awesome additions to our team. There are some great talent to be found among people who simply don't feel so enamored about SV or the Bay Area or simply want to stay where they are. We were drowning in work before and now we have some extra help. I don't see this as a bad trend.

RestlessMind 5y ago
> I don't feel how I'm entitled to my current salary No one is entitled to anything. It is purely about protecting your bargaining power. Tech peeps should learn from Doctors/AMA. If you aren't vigilant about your privilege, others will be too happy to take that power away from you and enrich themselves. See who benefited from outsourcing manufacturing to China - only the outsourcing companies and Chinese middle class, but at a great loss to American middle class. While I completely understand Chinese middle class to fight for improving its lot, I don't understand why American middle class has to surrender its power so easily. > We were drowning in work before and now we have some extra help. I don't see this as a bad trend. LOL we might as well be working at the same company. Wait until you see the proportion of your foreign colleagues increasing. Again, same thing happened with manufacturing. "Oh but we are just seeing cheaper goods in our stores" was what they said in the beginning. And it was too late by the time capital owners established manufacturing elsewhere and drained out all those middle class jobs.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  Doesn't this largely improve the american middle class? Most remote workers will still come from the US but from places like Kansas or Ohio.
  - flashgordon 5y ago
    How do we measure this? Quality of health care available for MC today as opposed to 30 years ago? Quality of education? Home affordability? Cost of living? I thought in the US all these had declined in the last 30 years (in adjusted terms) - i dont know if outsourcing is what caused it though.
underseacables 5y ago
Have you made these views known to management? I think they would be very interested to learn that someone could do your job for half the price.
bradlys 5y ago
I’m pretty sure this mentality is what causes the constant gutting of the middle class in the US. It’s not like the income is distributed equally outside the US. It’s a cost savings. So, they’re gonna spend less and who gets to keep all the money? Exec team.
- hangonhn 5y ago
  I actually don't disagree with you but I think there are some nuances that I should clarify. I'm not pro-exec nor super laissez faire, etc. but at the same time I don't think the target of our ire should be our fellow workers in other parts of the country or other countries. I don't know if unions or something else is the answer to this but trying to exclude other workers from getting opportunities seems wrong, especially when executive compensating is so high and many of us are drowning in work.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    I guess I find the being “not pro-exec” etc to be contradictory to: “ If someone can do what I do here in SV for half the price or less but do it just as well or even better but else where in the world, I don't feel how I'm entitled to my current salary.” That - to me - is pro-exec talk because at the end of the day… advocating for lower wages is going to go to no one except the execs. I don’t mind having more people in software. I DO mind when people start advocating for lower wages. There is no reason to lower the wages. We need to rise everyone together - not pull people down from the middle class in the US. (Even $400k engs in USA are still overwhelming middle class because they are wage slaves as much as anyone else is)
    - hangonhn 5y ago
      Yeah that's a fair point; I can see what I wrote can be read that way. What I really should have wrote is that me and my fellow engineers in SV shouldn't be the only ones holding these jobs and earning these salaries. Tech companies are among the most profitable and can afford to hire more and pay those engineers the same wages as they do in SV.
flashgordon 5y ago
By the same logic why not champion the same for exec/middle/upper management too? I am not sure how SWEs "out there" are a better ROI but execs are not?

RestlessMind 5y ago

> I don't feel how I'm entitled to my current salary No one is entitled to anything. It is purely about protecting your bargaining power. Tech peeps should learn from Doctors/AMA. If you aren't vigilant about your privilege, others will be too happy to take that power away from you and enrich themselves. See who benefited from outsourcing manufacturing to China - only the outsourcing companies and Chinese middle class, but at a great loss to American middle class. While I completely understand Chinese middle class to fight for improving its lot, I don't understand why American middle class has to surrender its power so easily. > We were drowning in work before and now we have some extra help. I don't see this as a bad trend. LOL we might as well be working at the same company. Wait until you see the proportion of your foreign colleagues increasing. Again, same thing happened with manufacturing. "Oh but we are just seeing cheaper goods in our stores" was what they said in the beginning. And it was too late by the time capital owners established manufacturing elsewhere and drained out all those middle class jobs.

ipaddr 5y ago
Doesn't this largely improve the american middle class? Most remote workers will still come from the US but from places like Kansas or Ohio.
- flashgordon 5y ago
  How do we measure this? Quality of health care available for MC today as opposed to 30 years ago? Quality of education? Home affordability? Cost of living? I thought in the US all these had declined in the last 30 years (in adjusted terms) - i dont know if outsourcing is what caused it though.

underseacables 5y ago

Have you made these views known to management? I think they would be very interested to learn that someone could do your job for half the price.

bradlys 5y ago

I’m pretty sure this mentality is what causes the constant gutting of the middle class in the US. It’s not like the income is distributed equally outside the US. It’s a cost savings. So, they’re gonna spend less and who gets to keep all the money? Exec team.

hangonhn 5y ago
I actually don't disagree with you but I think there are some nuances that I should clarify. I'm not pro-exec nor super laissez faire, etc. but at the same time I don't think the target of our ire should be our fellow workers in other parts of the country or other countries. I don't know if unions or something else is the answer to this but trying to exclude other workers from getting opportunities seems wrong, especially when executive compensating is so high and many of us are drowning in work.
- bradlys 5y ago
  I guess I find the being “not pro-exec” etc to be contradictory to: “ If someone can do what I do here in SV for half the price or less but do it just as well or even better but else where in the world, I don't feel how I'm entitled to my current salary.” That - to me - is pro-exec talk because at the end of the day… advocating for lower wages is going to go to no one except the execs. I don’t mind having more people in software. I DO mind when people start advocating for lower wages. There is no reason to lower the wages. We need to rise everyone together - not pull people down from the middle class in the US. (Even $400k engs in USA are still overwhelming middle class because they are wage slaves as much as anyone else is)
  - hangonhn 5y ago
    Yeah that's a fair point; I can see what I wrote can be read that way. What I really should have wrote is that me and my fellow engineers in SV shouldn't be the only ones holding these jobs and earning these salaries. Tech companies are among the most profitable and can afford to hire more and pay those engineers the same wages as they do in SV.

flashgordon 5y ago

By the same logic why not champion the same for exec/middle/upper management too? I am not sure how SWEs "out there" are a better ROI but execs are not?