5 ms·

I don’t agree with the statement the “crime is opportunistic,” that if you just remove the opportunity, you will remove the crime. That seems very, very narrow-

I don’t agree with the statement the “crime is opportunistic,” that if you just remove the opportunity, you will remove the crime. That seems very, very narrow-sighted. I think a lot of theft crime comes from an absence of hope, no hope for better jobs, no hope for education, so why not? What stops a person from committing a crime? That’s really big big question, and I think when you have high poverty areas, high concentration of poverty, you encounter concentration of people who have no hope, no future, no jobs, no education, so why care? Steal. Anything to break the monotony seems worth the risk.

justshowpost 5y ago
What about criminal mindset caused by criminal culture flourishing in such areas?
- Clewza313 5y ago
  People are not robbing dollar stores because rap music told them to.
  - f6v 5y ago
    You’re saying the culture is just rap music and nothing else?
    - Clewza313 5y ago
      I'm saying blaming violence on "culture" sounds like a Republican dog-whistle for "poor black people deserve their fate". (And I'm not even American.)
- fra 5y ago
  It's not "criminal culture" (often used as a dog whistle...), it's poverty culture https://www.theatlantic.com/personal/archive/2010/10/a-culture-of-poverty/64854/ https://www.theatlantic.com/personal/archive/2010/10/a-cultu...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Clewza313 5y ago
    > "If you are a young person living in an environment where violence is frequent and random, the willingness to meet any hint of violence with yet more violence is a shield." Bingo. It's an entirely natural reaction to a violent environment. It's not the cause of the environment though, any more than GIs brawling during R&R caused the Vietnam War.
- toomanybeersies 5y ago
  Are there any instances of "criminal culture" flourishing in wealthy areas? Or is "criminal culture" the byproduct of poverty and desperation?
heavenlyblue 5y ago
There’s a whole gradient between total absence of hope and huge opportunity for committing a crime. Not all criminals are completely hopeless and not all situations are lacking the opportunity to commit a crime. If you are operating within the context of high opportunity for crime then reducing that opportunity for yourself will just drive the crime away from you. It doesn’t matter how hopeless the criminals are.
R0b0t1 5y ago
A lot of crime is opportunistic. You need to both know what you can exploit and also have some assurance there will be no repercussions. Someone may always be looking for that opportunity, and it may be a lifestyle choice. But it is still opportunistic on an event level.
6f8986c3 5y ago
You clearly have spent no time around criminals, or as a guest of the criminal justice system. I have done both. Nobody gives a shit about education. Nobody from the hood gives a fuck about your Stanford degree. Why should you work for a living? You don't even keep your full paycheck: the government takes 25% right off the top. Don't argue that point, I worked in fast food. Your honest job has no honor or glory. Nobody respects a cashier at McDonalds. You get shit on, all day long by the public, for next to nothing. But you get to see all those rich people on TV, all day long. We value our lives not in absolute terms, but relative to the wealth we see around us. Violence and exploitation get you both wealth and respect. Girls will fuck you for free drugs. And because you're hard. You throw down with the cops because you don't give a fuck. Nobody fucks with you, because you have a reputation. "Tough on crime" won't fix this. Neither will social programs. Stupid has to hurt bad, and that just isn't palatable to polite society.
- yusyusyus 5y ago
  >Stupid has to hurt bad, and that just isn't palatable to polite society. What does this actually mean from your POV?
- akomtu 5y ago
  What if the gov gave anonymous "evacuation loans"? The target audience is teens in crime ridden neighborhoods that want to escape, but have no means to do so, and even if they tried, the immense peer pressure wouldnt let them. The loan would allow such teens to relocate anywhere in the US, with all expenses, including tution, paid. Upon graduating the loan would be forgiven. I admit, this idea may be a fantasy. Edit. Your comment being downvoted confirms that the politically correct left doesn't want to listen.
  - lupire 5y ago
    What do you think someone in extreme poverty would want to throw away their local family and support network, in exchange for being an outcast somewhere else? Are you going to pay them $100K/yt until they build a new life?
fighterpilot 5y ago
I hear this repeated everywhere, but do you have any studies or numbers that back this up? All I could find is this survey of ~40000 shoplifters. Although there's probably a bit of selection bias, they left out homeless people for example. "However, it [shoplifting] was more common among those with higher education and income, suggesting that financial considerations are unlikely to be the main motivator for shoplifting in most cases." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4104590/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4104590/
- f6v 5y ago
  Shoplifting and armed robbery are very different crimes.
- akomtu 5y ago
  Here's comprehensive crime stats from FBI for year 2019: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43 https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...

justshowpost 5y ago

What about criminal mindset caused by criminal culture flourishing in such areas?

Clewza313 5y ago
People are not robbing dollar stores because rap music told them to.
- f6v 5y ago
  You’re saying the culture is just rap music and nothing else?
  - Clewza313 5y ago
    I'm saying blaming violence on "culture" sounds like a Republican dog-whistle for "poor black people deserve their fate". (And I'm not even American.)
fra 5y ago
It's not "criminal culture" (often used as a dog whistle...), it's poverty culture https://www.theatlantic.com/personal/archive/2010/10/a-culture-of-poverty/64854/ https://www.theatlantic.com/personal/archive/2010/10/a-cultu...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Clewza313 5y ago
  > "If you are a young person living in an environment where violence is frequent and random, the willingness to meet any hint of violence with yet more violence is a shield." Bingo. It's an entirely natural reaction to a violent environment. It's not the cause of the environment though, any more than GIs brawling during R&R caused the Vietnam War.
toomanybeersies 5y ago
Are there any instances of "criminal culture" flourishing in wealthy areas? Or is "criminal culture" the byproduct of poverty and desperation?

heavenlyblue 5y ago

There’s a whole gradient between total absence of hope and huge opportunity for committing a crime. Not all criminals are completely hopeless and not all situations are lacking the opportunity to commit a crime. If you are operating within the context of high opportunity for crime then reducing that opportunity for yourself will just drive the crime away from you. It doesn’t matter how hopeless the criminals are.

R0b0t1 5y ago

A lot of crime is opportunistic. You need to both know what you can exploit and also have some assurance there will be no repercussions. Someone may always be looking for that opportunity, and it may be a lifestyle choice. But it is still opportunistic on an event level.

6f8986c3 5y ago

You clearly have spent no time around criminals, or as a guest of the criminal justice system. I have done both. Nobody gives a shit about education. Nobody from the hood gives a fuck about your Stanford degree. Why should you work for a living? You don't even keep your full paycheck: the government takes 25% right off the top. Don't argue that point, I worked in fast food. Your honest job has no honor or glory. Nobody respects a cashier at McDonalds. You get shit on, all day long by the public, for next to nothing. But you get to see all those rich people on TV, all day long. We value our lives not in absolute terms, but relative to the wealth we see around us. Violence and exploitation get you both wealth and respect. Girls will fuck you for free drugs. And because you're hard. You throw down with the cops because you don't give a fuck. Nobody fucks with you, because you have a reputation. "Tough on crime" won't fix this. Neither will social programs. Stupid has to hurt bad, and that just isn't palatable to polite society.

yusyusyus 5y ago
>Stupid has to hurt bad, and that just isn't palatable to polite society. What does this actually mean from your POV?
akomtu 5y ago
What if the gov gave anonymous "evacuation loans"? The target audience is teens in crime ridden neighborhoods that want to escape, but have no means to do so, and even if they tried, the immense peer pressure wouldnt let them. The loan would allow such teens to relocate anywhere in the US, with all expenses, including tution, paid. Upon graduating the loan would be forgiven. I admit, this idea may be a fantasy. Edit. Your comment being downvoted confirms that the politically correct left doesn't want to listen.
- lupire 5y ago
  What do you think someone in extreme poverty would want to throw away their local family and support network, in exchange for being an outcast somewhere else? Are you going to pay them $100K/yt until they build a new life?

fighterpilot 5y ago

I hear this repeated everywhere, but do you have any studies or numbers that back this up? All I could find is this survey of ~40000 shoplifters. Although there's probably a bit of selection bias, they left out homeless people for example. "However, it [shoplifting] was more common among those with higher education and income, suggesting that financial considerations are unlikely to be the main motivator for shoplifting in most cases." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4104590/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4104590/

f6v 5y ago
Shoplifting and armed robbery are very different crimes.
akomtu 5y ago
Here's comprehensive crime stats from FBI for year 2019: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43 https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-...