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I'm not sure you have this _quite_ right. Vatican II was not some radical break with Tradition. Some of the weird and opportunistic _interpretations_ of Vatican

I'm not sure you have this _quite_ right. Vatican II was not some radical break with Tradition. Some of the weird and opportunistic _interpretations_ of Vatican II that followed did (think "felt banner clown mass"), but not Vatican II itself. > celibate in the priesthood or in religious life is superior. This is still the case. JPII even repeats this in one of his books (possibly "Love and Responsibility", can't remember atm). > Without the special status, the women left. I don't think this is the reason. In any case, celibacy is not the abdication of motherhood or fatherhood. We are all called to motherhood and fatherhood. In the case of the celibate religious, those are expressed in a spiritual way. One becomes a spiritual mother or father. > Mother Abbesses [...] could even hear confessions from her subjects, even if she could not impart the sacraments. This is certainly not the case[0]. I mean, you can tell anyone anything you like (though obviously prudence is needed here), but only priests can confer the sacrament of penance. So what would be the point of hearing a confession if you could not offer absolution? [0] https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01007e.htm https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01007e.htm

iammisc 5y ago
> So what would be the point of hearing a confession if you could not offer absolution? The actual confession is not a requirement to receive absolution. One receives absolution during last rites as well without a confession. The sacrament of reconciliation can also be celebrated communally with absolution offered to all gathered with no confession. I said mother abbesses could hear confession, I never said they could confer absolution which is sacramental. I believe all religious communities, even male ones, confess to one another as the new testament command. Confession to others, not just a priest, is a good spiritual practice. > This is still the case I am of the opinion that the emphasis is such a material break from reality that the original teaching is not kept. From Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbess https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbess) Abbesses are, like abbots, major superiors according to canon law, the equivalents of abbots or bishops (the ordained male members of the church hierarchy who have, by right of their own office, executive jurisdiction over a building, diocesan territory, or a communal or non-communal group of persons—juridical entities under church law).

iammisc 5y ago

> So what would be the point of hearing a confession if you could not offer absolution? The actual confession is not a requirement to receive absolution. One receives absolution during last rites as well without a confession. The sacrament of reconciliation can also be celebrated communally with absolution offered to all gathered with no confession. I said mother abbesses could hear confession, I never said they could confer absolution which is sacramental. I believe all religious communities, even male ones, confess to one another as the new testament command. Confession to others, not just a priest, is a good spiritual practice. > This is still the case I am of the opinion that the emphasis is such a material break from reality that the original teaching is not kept. From Wikipedia (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbess https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbess) Abbesses are, like abbots, major superiors according to canon law, the equivalents of abbots or bishops (the ordained male members of the church hierarchy who have, by right of their own office, executive jurisdiction over a building, diocesan territory, or a communal or non-communal group of persons—juridical entities under church law).