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In a model where developers adhere to a devops philosophy and are product owners, there's no need for a split. Developers should not be measured only quantity o

by bilalq 5y ago

In a model where developers adhere to a devops philosophy and are product owners, there's no need for a split. Developers should not be measured only quantity of releases, but also on metrics related to availability, customer impact, latency, operational costs, etc. I'm not opposed to a model where non-technical roles are empowered to define test cases and contribute to approval workflows of a release pipeline, but that doesn't absolve developers of the primary responsibility of being end-to-end owners. I know "devops" is an overloaded term that means different things to different people. To me, it's when developers are involved in product research, requirements gathering, user studies, design, architecture, implementation, testing, release management, and ongoing operations. They're supported by a dedicated product manager who leads the research/requirements gathering/user studies initiatives.

sethammons 5y ago
This is how I've worked for most of the last decade. Empowered devs that are accountable for their releases and supported by metrics related to customer experience want good quality releases. Ownership works.
Rapzid 5y ago
Agree but a lot of companies, particularly larger ones, don't have this sort of culture. They are filled with people whos sense of worth(at the company at least) is defined by a narrow job title and set of skills. Their worldview requires them to categorize everyone else on a narrow set of attributes as well: "Oh, you're a programmer so you must not be good at soft-skills and communicating with the business." "Ah, you have soft-skills and you also program? You must not actually be very good at programming so you should stop that and just become a PM." "Ah, they are PMs/Sales/Whatever so SQL is too hard for them and they can't be expected to learn git or markdown; that's for nerds." This leads to cringy, insulting sentiments like: > The most valuable thing you can be doing is writing code Ughh.

by bilalq 5y ago

sethammons 5y ago

This is how I've worked for most of the last decade. Empowered devs that are accountable for their releases and supported by metrics related to customer experience want good quality releases. Ownership works.

Rapzid 5y ago

Agree but a lot of companies, particularly larger ones, don't have this sort of culture. They are filled with people whos sense of worth(at the company at least) is defined by a narrow job title and set of skills. Their worldview requires them to categorize everyone else on a narrow set of attributes as well: "Oh, you're a programmer so you must not be good at soft-skills and communicating with the business." "Ah, you have soft-skills and you also program? You must not actually be very good at programming so you should stop that and just become a PM." "Ah, they are PMs/Sales/Whatever so SQL is too hard for them and they can't be expected to learn git or markdown; that's for nerds." This leads to cringy, insulting sentiments like: > The most valuable thing you can be doing is writing code Ughh.