5 ms·

Tesla just announced a brand new car - a $25K hatchback

18 points by mbreese 5y ago

cmrdporcupine 5y ago
I'm interested, and it will probably come out around the time I'd be replacing my Volt... but if they insist on the dashboardless, touchscreen-focused control system like in the Model 3, I won't go near it. I hope consumers in general put their foot down about this dangerous trend in (bad) car UX.
- ianai 5y ago
  I think some after market breakout boxes exist for key functions. I agree that the UX is poor.
- maximus-decimus 5y ago
  "touchscreen focused control system" is misrepresentative when the driver is mostly expected to control everything from the steering wheel.
adflux 5y ago
>Musk also promised that the Tesla hatchback would be fully autonomous. Ah, so we can expect this car in a year or 10
ben174 5y ago
Elon, can you please focus on delivering what we early adopters paid an extra $8,000 for so long ago - the promise of a fully self driving car? Or should write that off and forget about it so you can make cheaper cars. It's getting pretty hard to recommend a Tesla to my friends and family these days, especially with all the other offerings the competition is bringing to the table.
- Traster 5y ago
  To be fair, I think they're basically orthogonal problems. I'm not a Musk fan - I think his public statements about autonomous driving are horse shit, but I don't think any one working on a hatchback Tesla would be better focused on self-driving, and I don't think Tesla is resource constrained. At this point if they wanted to put more resources into self-driving they could just hire more people into the self-driving team, paying for it through issuing stock or debt at their ridiculous current market value.
- maximus-decimus 5y ago
  As Jean Chretien (past Canada prime minister) once said : I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Really, I don't think doing one affects the other.
- clouddrover 5y ago
  Tesla follows the Rules of Acquisition (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition). Rule 1: Once you have their money, you never give it back. Rule 17: A contract is a contract is a contract… but only between Ferengi. Rule 239: Never be afraid to mislabel a product.
Someone 5y ago
FTA: “The new battery uses a tabless design that promises to be 35% smaller than conventional batteries, which promises to be cheaper, safer and more powerful. According to Tesla, this means the battery offers five times more energy and six times more power, all of which comes together to offer 16% more range per kilowatt hour of juice.” I don’t follow that math. All else being equal, 35% smaller means about 50% more range if they go for the same size battery. If it’s only 15%, they must make the battery smaller by about 25%. That’s fine, but where does the “six times more power” come from. What do they compare that with? Can’t be current cars, since range would then be six times as large, and they wouldn’t want to build such a car (better build a cheaper car with a bit less range, don’t want to compete with own more expensive models) (It might work out mathematically if these new batteries were incredibly heavy, but the article says it’s lighter) What do I miss?
- nickik 5y ago
  What you miss is that people throw out a bunch of number that use different base numbers and so on. The reality is very complex. This is a long video series attempting to explain everything from Battery Day: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyvdbTy3v1d5luwdDGPFPab9WWPmMW_cJ https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyvdbTy3v1d5luwdDGPFP... You can watch only the last video if you want a more simple overview.
- maximus-decimus 5y ago
  The five times more energy dense and 6 times the power refers to the design explained on Tesla's Battery day. Seriously, they made a 2 hours presentation about it. Total nerd porn : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6T9xIeZTds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6T9xIeZTds This really applies to the cells, not the battery itself, I think they just misunderstood. This is in comparison to the current design. They did that mostly by... making the cells bigger! I think the battery itself is 35% smaller because this removes the need for using tabs and the cell volume/surface area is greater. Also note that "six times the power" doesn't mean six times the range. Power is energy per unit of time so it really only tells you how fast you can use the energy in your battery (and I'm assuming how fast you can charge.)
nickik 5y ago
No they didn't.
slownews45 5y ago
They did not announce anything - this is just clickbait trash. In November 2020 Elon said this "In Europe, it would make sense to do a compact car" If HN wants to run with this as a June 2021 announcement of a $25K hatchback go for it, but there has been nothing of the sort announced, this is just conjecture on old tweets. Some kind of SEO optimization I think to do "just announced" - seeing it more lately so it must be working.
maverick-iceman 5y ago
For people complaining about Musk lies. They will only end when every other CEO in America starts behaving like him. People have to understands that other guys, they aren't stupid or squares....they are all capable of doing what Musk does, in fact you'll struggle to find someone who is a worse public speaker than Musk . They just can't because Musk already sucked out all the dollars of those who are attracted by this sort of behavior, so it's a losing propositions Custodians of 125 years old institutions such as Ford or GM or Daimler, they simply can afford to enter a tug of war game against Musk for the graces of the retail investors. Retail investors are unique, rather they are very similar to your average person who has their cycles of emotions and on-again , off-again type relationship with basically everything and everyone

18 points by mbreese 5y ago

I'm interested, and it will probably come out around the time I'd be replacing my Volt... but if they insist on the dashboardless, touchscreen-focused control system like in the Model 3, I won't go near it. I hope consumers in general put their foot down about this dangerous trend in (bad) car UX.

ianai 5y ago
I think some after market breakout boxes exist for key functions. I agree that the UX is poor.
maximus-decimus 5y ago
"touchscreen focused control system" is misrepresentative when the driver is mostly expected to control everything from the steering wheel.

adflux 5y ago

>Musk also promised that the Tesla hatchback would be fully autonomous. Ah, so we can expect this car in a year or 10

ben174 5y ago

Elon, can you please focus on delivering what we early adopters paid an extra $8,000 for so long ago - the promise of a fully self driving car? Or should write that off and forget about it so you can make cheaper cars. It's getting pretty hard to recommend a Tesla to my friends and family these days, especially with all the other offerings the competition is bringing to the table.

Traster 5y ago
To be fair, I think they're basically orthogonal problems. I'm not a Musk fan - I think his public statements about autonomous driving are horse shit, but I don't think any one working on a hatchback Tesla would be better focused on self-driving, and I don't think Tesla is resource constrained. At this point if they wanted to put more resources into self-driving they could just hire more people into the self-driving team, paying for it through issuing stock or debt at their ridiculous current market value.
maximus-decimus 5y ago
As Jean Chretien (past Canada prime minister) once said : I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Really, I don't think doing one affects the other.
clouddrover 5y ago
Tesla follows the Rules of Acquisition (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition). Rule 1: Once you have their money, you never give it back. Rule 17: A contract is a contract is a contract… but only between Ferengi. Rule 239: Never be afraid to mislabel a product.

Someone 5y ago

FTA: “The new battery uses a tabless design that promises to be 35% smaller than conventional batteries, which promises to be cheaper, safer and more powerful. According to Tesla, this means the battery offers five times more energy and six times more power, all of which comes together to offer 16% more range per kilowatt hour of juice.” I don’t follow that math. All else being equal, 35% smaller means about 50% more range if they go for the same size battery. If it’s only 15%, they must make the battery smaller by about 25%. That’s fine, but where does the “six times more power” come from. What do they compare that with? Can’t be current cars, since range would then be six times as large, and they wouldn’t want to build such a car (better build a cheaper car with a bit less range, don’t want to compete with own more expensive models) (It might work out mathematically if these new batteries were incredibly heavy, but the article says it’s lighter) What do I miss?

nickik 5y ago
What you miss is that people throw out a bunch of number that use different base numbers and so on. The reality is very complex. This is a long video series attempting to explain everything from Battery Day: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyvdbTy3v1d5luwdDGPFPab9WWPmMW_cJ https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLyvdbTy3v1d5luwdDGPFP... You can watch only the last video if you want a more simple overview.
maximus-decimus 5y ago
The five times more energy dense and 6 times the power refers to the design explained on Tesla's Battery day. Seriously, they made a 2 hours presentation about it. Total nerd porn : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6T9xIeZTds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6T9xIeZTds This really applies to the cells, not the battery itself, I think they just misunderstood. This is in comparison to the current design. They did that mostly by... making the cells bigger! I think the battery itself is 35% smaller because this removes the need for using tabs and the cell volume/surface area is greater. Also note that "six times the power" doesn't mean six times the range. Power is energy per unit of time so it really only tells you how fast you can use the energy in your battery (and I'm assuming how fast you can charge.)

nickik 5y ago

No they didn't.

slownews45 5y ago

They did not announce anything - this is just clickbait trash. In November 2020 Elon said this "In Europe, it would make sense to do a compact car" If HN wants to run with this as a June 2021 announcement of a $25K hatchback go for it, but there has been nothing of the sort announced, this is just conjecture on old tweets. Some kind of SEO optimization I think to do "just announced" - seeing it more lately so it must be working.

maverick-iceman 5y ago

For people complaining about Musk lies. They will only end when every other CEO in America starts behaving like him. People have to understands that other guys, they aren't stupid or squares....they are all capable of doing what Musk does, in fact you'll struggle to find someone who is a worse public speaker than Musk . They just can't because Musk already sucked out all the dollars of those who are attracted by this sort of behavior, so it's a losing propositions Custodians of 125 years old institutions such as Ford or GM or Daimler, they simply can afford to enter a tug of war game against Musk for the graces of the retail investors. Retail investors are unique, rather they are very similar to your average person who has their cycles of emotions and on-again , off-again type relationship with basically everything and everyone