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Intuit is consistently one of the least ethical actors in tech. They have a monopoly position in many of their products and take advantage of some of the poores

Intuit is consistently one of the least ethical actors in tech. They have a monopoly position in many of their products and take advantage of some of the poorest people through misinformation and lobbying. Facebook & Uber have received most of the heat over the past few years. Intuit has strangely avoided the same level of scrutiny.

dhosek 5y ago
Around 2009 my taxes grew complicated enough that I could no longer do them by hand and had to start using tax software for them. I've consistently refused to use TurboTax because the company is so evil. H&R Block is not necessarily a more ethical company, but at the very least, there's not more unethical. (And I'm vaguely aware of there being some open-source tax software of some sort out there, but when I looked it was kind of janky and didn't seem to give me much of an improvement over filling out the forms myself. I'd love to learn that things have changed.)
- shadilay 5y ago
  Last I checked state governments have links for the free tax software that taxpayers are already paying for but the companies so desperately hide.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  I still do my taxes manually. I've looked for open-source software to assist. I've tried OpenTaxSolver, it is OK for what it does (basic 1040 and a few schedules like SE income and Schedule C). It does not come close to handling all possible scenarios. It's possible that you could write your own modules to handle any mising forms, in fact I tweaked one calculation that wasn't handling some edge case properly. But that's more than most people would want to do, and would certainly be more work than just doing those forms manually with pen and calculator. But like any open-source project, it relies on individual efforts like that to build something that's useful to more people. The UI itself is extremely minimalist and would not be regarded as "user friendly" by a user from the general public. Edit: it also only attempts a few state returns. Mine is not one of them, but fortunately in my state the tax forms are pretty easy assuming the Federal return is done.
- lvspiff 5y ago
  does H&R Block handle investments and cost basis year over year information? That's the only tripping point im finding with whatever product I look to in comparison to Turbotax. Once your tax situation starts down that path I'm noticing getting a product that can pull from multiple investment accounts and keep track of cost basis correctly really narrows it down to Turbotax so far for me.
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    At that point why not engage an accounting firm? Yes it would probably cost more, but you're supporting your local economy and have a human being to discuss any questions with (as well as be responsible for any mistakes).
    - lowercased 5y ago
      agreed. it's "more" money, but generally less headache, you can ask questions, and get answers specific to your situation, especially questions that may include state/local tax concerns as well.
    - ryandrake 5y ago
      There's still a big jump in cost between, for example TurboTax Premier tier ($90 federal + $50 state = $140) and a CPA (where I've been quoted $400-$600). I don't think the level of service justifies the cost. I tried a professional once in my life, and he basically just asked me all the same questions the software would have asked me, and typed them in to his system for me. 3X-4X the cost for the services of a typist doesn't seem like a good deal.
      - jbluepolarbear 5y ago
        A CPA takes a risk doing your taxes. They are responsible if something goes wrong. That is probably $400 an hour. If you are paying less than that make sure it’s actually a CPA doing your taxes. There may be a CPA at the firm, but unless they sign and do your taxes you aren’t protected by their liability.
- cbhl 5y ago
  Is H&R block actually an independent code base? The last time I opened it, it looked like a page-for-page copy of TurboTax, which made me wonder whether it was just a white-label reskin of the same.
  - verall 5y ago
    I've went through both H&R block and turbotax's flows this previous year, and although heavily inspired, it did not seem like a reskin. Certain info was organized differently, etc. After being completely ready to spend $40 or whatever it was for the "Basic Premium" offering of each, BOTH H&R and turbotax silently upgraded me to "Self-employed" (I am not) and said I was free to pay the ~$100 or delete my account and make a new one. "TaxSlayer" finally let me file for like $30 or something.
cmckn 5y ago
For sure. The IRS needs to offer a tax preparation platform, the grift in this industry is astounding. I've always had decent experiences with TurboTax, but they've gotten extremely good at making your taxes hell if you want to avoid giving them $89.99.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f... https://www.propublica.org/series/the-turbotax-trap https://www.propublica.org/series/the-turbotax-trap “ProPublica has long detailed how Intuit, the maker of TurboTax, and other companies have worked against making tax preparation easier and less costly. They have lobbied to ban the IRS from offering free, simple tax filing. And they have deceived customers who should qualify for the Free File product.”
  - KorematsuFred 5y ago
    I find this criticism somewhat weird. It is very common for companies or even individuals to promote and support policies that benefit themselves. Intuit is seeking self interest here. But why would IRS and our elected representatives cave in ? Are these people so clueless or unethical that they do not care about their constituents anymore ? And if that is the case I don't see how anyone can bell the intuit's cat.
    - WisNorCan 5y ago
      It is a simple bargain. US representatives are dependent on fundraising and endorsements for re-election which lobbyists are happy to offer in exchange for help with their agenda.
    - commandlinefan 5y ago
      > why would IRS and our elected representatives cave in? money.
bingidingi 5y ago
i reckon people hate filling out tax forms by hand more than turbotax… and within good reason, even if you’re educated it can be frustrating to simply read tax regulations (which turbotax translates to simple english), and there’s a lot of anxiety around messing it up unfortunately turbotax is also one of the major players trying to prevent tax simplification… so they’ve got a great scheme going anyway there are more and more free options every year so let’s hope that can start hurting them… I’ve used creditkarma for a couple simple years and it’s great
- alkonaut 5y ago
  I really don't get the money side of US politics. How do these companies use money (presumably) do sway politicians? Just openly contribute to individual politicians/think tanks/PACs? How do they launder the money Is that what the PACs do? Make sure Joe Politican can get the money, but isn't seen handed a bag of cash from a company? Or is it simply that accepting campaign donations from corporations isn't seen as corruption by voters, so politicans can do it in the open?
  - bingidingi 5y ago
    Here's one example: I've called my congressman to complain about his support for the Taxpayer First Act (which enables Intuit), his campaign received $16k from Intuit and H&R block. They spent a combined $6 million or so on lobbying to get it passed. The act, among other things, removed the requirement for the IRS to report on their development of return-free tax filing. Direct PAC donations are allowed up to $5k. Super PACs are meant to be independent, can't work directly with politicians or campaigns... and therefore have to such limits. They're very often used for "indirect" lobbying. It's a scam and everyone knows it. The people empowered by the scam are the only ones who can change it.
  - SamBam 5y ago
    It's utterly insane. It's insane how much influence money can have on politics, when it's basically entirely spent on election campaigns. (And some fancy fund-raising dinners, and stuff, but I think that is less important.) It's insane that election campaigns are such an important and expensive part of politics. Accepting millions of dollars, and for what? To keep your job for another few years. Where the biggest part of your job is getting more money for the next campaign to keep it for another few years. Real campaign finance reform could do so much.
rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
It's even worse - if you don't opt-out of the data sharing, they have an absolute field day with all your financial data. They soak up a lot of the tech talent in San Diego, and every person I've met that works there on the TurboTax team has admitted to me that they feel ethically torn about what they do.
fooey 5y ago
We compete with a business Intuit acquired, and the Quickbooks online API is blatantly hamstrung to make sure you can't get that kind of data in and out of their systems. They had published spec'd out endpoints before the acquisition that just never happened. It's outright abuse, and harms their customers, but there's nothing we can do about it.

dhosek 5y ago

Around 2009 my taxes grew complicated enough that I could no longer do them by hand and had to start using tax software for them. I've consistently refused to use TurboTax because the company is so evil. H&R Block is not necessarily a more ethical company, but at the very least, there's not more unethical. (And I'm vaguely aware of there being some open-source tax software of some sort out there, but when I looked it was kind of janky and didn't seem to give me much of an improvement over filling out the forms myself. I'd love to learn that things have changed.)

shadilay 5y ago
Last I checked state governments have links for the free tax software that taxpayers are already paying for but the companies so desperately hide.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
throwawayboise 5y ago
I still do my taxes manually. I've looked for open-source software to assist. I've tried OpenTaxSolver, it is OK for what it does (basic 1040 and a few schedules like SE income and Schedule C). It does not come close to handling all possible scenarios. It's possible that you could write your own modules to handle any mising forms, in fact I tweaked one calculation that wasn't handling some edge case properly. But that's more than most people would want to do, and would certainly be more work than just doing those forms manually with pen and calculator. But like any open-source project, it relies on individual efforts like that to build something that's useful to more people. The UI itself is extremely minimalist and would not be regarded as "user friendly" by a user from the general public. Edit: it also only attempts a few state returns. Mine is not one of them, but fortunately in my state the tax forms are pretty easy assuming the Federal return is done.
lvspiff 5y ago
does H&R Block handle investments and cost basis year over year information? That's the only tripping point im finding with whatever product I look to in comparison to Turbotax. Once your tax situation starts down that path I'm noticing getting a product that can pull from multiple investment accounts and keep track of cost basis correctly really narrows it down to Turbotax so far for me.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  At that point why not engage an accounting firm? Yes it would probably cost more, but you're supporting your local economy and have a human being to discuss any questions with (as well as be responsible for any mistakes).
  - lowercased 5y ago
    agreed. it's "more" money, but generally less headache, you can ask questions, and get answers specific to your situation, especially questions that may include state/local tax concerns as well.
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    There's still a big jump in cost between, for example TurboTax Premier tier ($90 federal + $50 state = $140) and a CPA (where I've been quoted $400-$600). I don't think the level of service justifies the cost. I tried a professional once in my life, and he basically just asked me all the same questions the software would have asked me, and typed them in to his system for me. 3X-4X the cost for the services of a typist doesn't seem like a good deal.
    - jbluepolarbear 5y ago
      A CPA takes a risk doing your taxes. They are responsible if something goes wrong. That is probably $400 an hour. If you are paying less than that make sure it’s actually a CPA doing your taxes. There may be a CPA at the firm, but unless they sign and do your taxes you aren’t protected by their liability.
cbhl 5y ago
Is H&R block actually an independent code base? The last time I opened it, it looked like a page-for-page copy of TurboTax, which made me wonder whether it was just a white-label reskin of the same.
- verall 5y ago
  I've went through both H&R block and turbotax's flows this previous year, and although heavily inspired, it did not seem like a reskin. Certain info was organized differently, etc. After being completely ready to spend $40 or whatever it was for the "Basic Premium" offering of each, BOTH H&R and turbotax silently upgraded me to "Self-employed" (I am not) and said I was free to pay the ~$100 or delete my account and make a new one. "TaxSlayer" finally let me file for like $30 or something.

cmckn 5y ago

For sure. The IRS needs to offer a tax preparation platform, the grift in this industry is astounding. I've always had decent experiences with TurboTax, but they've gotten extremely good at making your taxes hell if you want to avoid giving them $89.99.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f... https://www.propublica.org/series/the-turbotax-trap https://www.propublica.org/series/the-turbotax-trap “ProPublica has long detailed how Intuit, the maker of TurboTax, and other companies have worked against making tax preparation easier and less costly. They have lobbied to ban the IRS from offering free, simple tax filing. And they have deceived customers who should qualify for the Free File product.”
- KorematsuFred 5y ago
  I find this criticism somewhat weird. It is very common for companies or even individuals to promote and support policies that benefit themselves. Intuit is seeking self interest here. But why would IRS and our elected representatives cave in ? Are these people so clueless or unethical that they do not care about their constituents anymore ? And if that is the case I don't see how anyone can bell the intuit's cat.
  - WisNorCan 5y ago
    It is a simple bargain. US representatives are dependent on fundraising and endorsements for re-election which lobbyists are happy to offer in exchange for help with their agenda.
  - commandlinefan 5y ago
    > why would IRS and our elected representatives cave in? money.

bingidingi 5y ago

i reckon people hate filling out tax forms by hand more than turbotax… and within good reason, even if you’re educated it can be frustrating to simply read tax regulations (which turbotax translates to simple english), and there’s a lot of anxiety around messing it up unfortunately turbotax is also one of the major players trying to prevent tax simplification… so they’ve got a great scheme going anyway there are more and more free options every year so let’s hope that can start hurting them… I’ve used creditkarma for a couple simple years and it’s great

alkonaut 5y ago
I really don't get the money side of US politics. How do these companies use money (presumably) do sway politicians? Just openly contribute to individual politicians/think tanks/PACs? How do they launder the money Is that what the PACs do? Make sure Joe Politican can get the money, but isn't seen handed a bag of cash from a company? Or is it simply that accepting campaign donations from corporations isn't seen as corruption by voters, so politicans can do it in the open?
- bingidingi 5y ago
  Here's one example: I've called my congressman to complain about his support for the Taxpayer First Act (which enables Intuit), his campaign received $16k from Intuit and H&R block. They spent a combined $6 million or so on lobbying to get it passed. The act, among other things, removed the requirement for the IRS to report on their development of return-free tax filing. Direct PAC donations are allowed up to $5k. Super PACs are meant to be independent, can't work directly with politicians or campaigns... and therefore have to such limits. They're very often used for "indirect" lobbying. It's a scam and everyone knows it. The people empowered by the scam are the only ones who can change it.
- SamBam 5y ago
  It's utterly insane. It's insane how much influence money can have on politics, when it's basically entirely spent on election campaigns. (And some fancy fund-raising dinners, and stuff, but I think that is less important.) It's insane that election campaigns are such an important and expensive part of politics. Accepting millions of dollars, and for what? To keep your job for another few years. Where the biggest part of your job is getting more money for the next campaign to keep it for another few years. Real campaign finance reform could do so much.

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago

It's even worse - if you don't opt-out of the data sharing, they have an absolute field day with all your financial data. They soak up a lot of the tech talent in San Diego, and every person I've met that works there on the TurboTax team has admitted to me that they feel ethically torn about what they do.

fooey 5y ago

We compete with a business Intuit acquired, and the Quickbooks online API is blatantly hamstrung to make sure you can't get that kind of data in and out of their systems. They had published spec'd out endpoints before the acquisition that just never happened. It's outright abuse, and harms their customers, but there's nothing we can do about it.