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> I value having more control over what little time I have left alive This right here is the entire argument. It's about control, and nothing more. The pandem

> I value having more control over what little time I have left alive This right here is the entire argument. It's about control, and nothing more. The pandemic displaced a large group of socially successful people from the social hierarchy. Those people want to return to the old normal because they want their status back. They want control back. "You'll do what you're told because I said so, that's why." lies at the heart of it. Some of those displaced people have been revealed as frauds: they don't actually contribute value that is commensurate with their position in the hierarchy. And some of those who report to them have had just about enough of their shit. We're collectively asked to give up our lives to these companies. To willingly give over our ability to determine how we order our days. To look the other way as our various employers build a literal dystopia. Yeah, no thanks. I'll stay in control of myself from now on.

munificent 5y ago
I don't necessarily mean this in the context here of "work for a corporation" but one thing I have learned recently (thanks, therapy) is that one can lean too far in the direction of individual autonomy. At a base level, everyone wants a meaningful, fulfilled life. A key component of that is having enough autonomy and control to feel that your decisions matter because they are your decisions. But another important component is to feel that your decisions matter because they matter to others. We are a social primate species and for most of us, our emotional systems are wired to feel the greatest peace when we feel we are helping our tribe and being supported by it in return. Being part of a group (job or not) where you feel your efforts help not just you but the entire group is deeply important for most people. There's a reason that male suicide rates skyrocket not long after retirement. We are not happy alone and disconnected, even though being in that state in theory maximizes our personal autonomy. Obviously, this is not to imply that a job is the only or best way to find that kind of tribe or group identity. But there are meaningful jobs out there and working together can be an important part of a fulfilling life.
- imbnwa 5y ago
  > There's a reason that male suicide rates skyrocket not long after retirement. We are not happy alone and disconnected, even though being in that state in theory maximizes our personal autonomy. That seems to be a completely artificial problem of the modern corporate first-world that discards or isolates anyone it doesn't find useful (the elderly and children) when, for a most of history; the elderly never stopped working in a meaningful capacity ever until they dropped or were incapacitated; children were working with their guardians much much more of the time without dipping into exploitative child labor of industrialism. > But there are meaningful jobs out there and working together can be an important part of a fulfilling life. It's like we're making the best of having our village raided for resources and saying some of the raiders don't take all the stuff (and they don't take nothing). What we need are appropriate walls so that our relationship with these outsiders can be one of trade/negotiation.
throwaway743 5y ago
I couldn't agree with you more. > Some of those displaced people have been revealed as frauds: they don't actually contribute value that is commensurate with their position in the hierarchy. And some of those who report to them have had just about enough of their shit. Oh boy, I could share quite a few relevant stories (as I think many of here could too) that'd make your head spin. It's crazy to think of the number of these fraudsters out there and how awful it is for those who are forced to be stuck dealing with them/their actions day in day out. Been in that situation with a few managers in the past, and it's an understatement to say my time was stolen by them.
jessaustin 5y ago
Some of these "in control" managers are just extreme extroverts, who can't comfortably live without a steady stream of victi^W "direct reports" to cater to their weird habits. Instead of simply creating a policy and a monthly report for a trivial daily process easily accomplished by a particular employee, it's so much more satisfying for such a manager to drop in unannounced every day to "supervise". These managers have been stuck at home long enough that all the maids and gardeners have quit and the third spouse has suggested a separation. An omnipresence of such people surely justified the invention of the guillotine...
snowflake_ptr 5y ago
> We're collectively asked to give up our lives to these companies. "Give up our lives"? Ridiculous. The vast majority of paid jobs in the US are either on a 40-hour workweek (which is a fraction of the 168 hours in a week) or by the hour (wherein you can work far less, even if not an arbitrarily small amount). This is utter hyperbole, and even more so when you compare American working hours to Asian ones, such as the infamous Chinese "9-9-6" schedule (72 work hours a week). > To willingly give over our ability to determine how we order our days. Well, yeah. That's kind of how jobs work. You provide labor and get capital in return. You're free to opt out and not work if you want. > To look the other way as our various employers build a literal dystopia. Nobody is asking you to look the other way. Unions exist for a reason. Political activism is legal and actively practiced.

munificent 5y ago

I don't necessarily mean this in the context here of "work for a corporation" but one thing I have learned recently (thanks, therapy) is that one can lean too far in the direction of individual autonomy. At a base level, everyone wants a meaningful, fulfilled life. A key component of that is having enough autonomy and control to feel that your decisions matter because they are your decisions. But another important component is to feel that your decisions matter because they matter to others. We are a social primate species and for most of us, our emotional systems are wired to feel the greatest peace when we feel we are helping our tribe and being supported by it in return. Being part of a group (job or not) where you feel your efforts help not just you but the entire group is deeply important for most people. There's a reason that male suicide rates skyrocket not long after retirement. We are not happy alone and disconnected, even though being in that state in theory maximizes our personal autonomy. Obviously, this is not to imply that a job is the only or best way to find that kind of tribe or group identity. But there are meaningful jobs out there and working together can be an important part of a fulfilling life.

imbnwa 5y ago
> There's a reason that male suicide rates skyrocket not long after retirement. We are not happy alone and disconnected, even though being in that state in theory maximizes our personal autonomy. That seems to be a completely artificial problem of the modern corporate first-world that discards or isolates anyone it doesn't find useful (the elderly and children) when, for a most of history; the elderly never stopped working in a meaningful capacity ever until they dropped or were incapacitated; children were working with their guardians much much more of the time without dipping into exploitative child labor of industrialism. > But there are meaningful jobs out there and working together can be an important part of a fulfilling life. It's like we're making the best of having our village raided for resources and saying some of the raiders don't take all the stuff (and they don't take nothing). What we need are appropriate walls so that our relationship with these outsiders can be one of trade/negotiation.

throwaway743 5y ago

I couldn't agree with you more. > Some of those displaced people have been revealed as frauds: they don't actually contribute value that is commensurate with their position in the hierarchy. And some of those who report to them have had just about enough of their shit. Oh boy, I could share quite a few relevant stories (as I think many of here could too) that'd make your head spin. It's crazy to think of the number of these fraudsters out there and how awful it is for those who are forced to be stuck dealing with them/their actions day in day out. Been in that situation with a few managers in the past, and it's an understatement to say my time was stolen by them.

jessaustin 5y ago

Some of these "in control" managers are just extreme extroverts, who can't comfortably live without a steady stream of victi^W "direct reports" to cater to their weird habits. Instead of simply creating a policy and a monthly report for a trivial daily process easily accomplished by a particular employee, it's so much more satisfying for such a manager to drop in unannounced every day to "supervise". These managers have been stuck at home long enough that all the maids and gardeners have quit and the third spouse has suggested a separation. An omnipresence of such people surely justified the invention of the guillotine...

snowflake_ptr 5y ago

> We're collectively asked to give up our lives to these companies. "Give up our lives"? Ridiculous. The vast majority of paid jobs in the US are either on a 40-hour workweek (which is a fraction of the 168 hours in a week) or by the hour (wherein you can work far less, even if not an arbitrarily small amount). This is utter hyperbole, and even more so when you compare American working hours to Asian ones, such as the infamous Chinese "9-9-6" schedule (72 work hours a week). > To willingly give over our ability to determine how we order our days. Well, yeah. That's kind of how jobs work. You provide labor and get capital in return. You're free to opt out and not work if you want. > To look the other way as our various employers build a literal dystopia. Nobody is asking you to look the other way. Unions exist for a reason. Political activism is legal and actively practiced.