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Given that removing a toe would result in life-long inability to properly run or dance or balance… I get the metaphor but living in California spending 12-14h/

Given that removing a toe would result in life-long inability to properly run or dance or balance… I get the metaphor but living in California spending 12-14h/week commuting and paying 30% more for real estate does make a difference compared to living in California and spending these 40-60h/month with family or on yourself.

angmarsbane 5y ago
I think it's really the cost of housing and unbearable commutes that people are more against than being in the office. If people could have short commutes and reasonable housing I don't think time in office would be fought as hard.
- pseudalopex 5y ago
  Don't forget open floor plans.
- andrei_says_ 5y ago
  As one of the “people” I can say that being in the office is a significant downgrade compared to WFH. Being confined in specific place for 8 hours a day does not make sense for me. My colleagues’ zoom rooms are 1-click away during work hours. The factory floor model does not apply when all you process is information. I know managers probably still want to see their workers in their seats but trust beats micromanagement.
radicaldreamer 5y ago
Depends on how much you make and cost of living is tangible while quality of life due to weather and proximity to the kind of nature SF has is intangible. Because everyone’s value of the latter is different, it will always make sense on paper to leave California and the Bay Area.
subsubzero 5y ago
There's so many more costs than you listed as well(CA living), agree with all your points though :) - Gas is the most expensive in the nation, right now a gallon in my town is $4.60 for 87. - State taxes are highest in the nation, for most professional incomes taxes are above 10%. - Sales tax is also very high, around 9% for most purchases, some states have no sales tax. - Food is extremely expensive, I recently traveled to Arizona and food was about 30-40% cheaper than CA. - Professional services are also very expensive, think doctor, eye exam, etc. - Construction costs are about 50% higher than most areas of the country. - As for housing, I would say say CA and the bay area in particular are extremely expensive. A typical house in the bay area is around $1.4M now, in a good area look to spend $2M., An average house in California now costs $850k, the highest its ever been. Contrast that to the average cost of a house in the US as being $350k.
Bud 5y ago
Spending 30% more? More like 130% more, based on my very recent homebuying experience in another very nice city compared to what that experience would have been like in the Bay Area.
- andrei_says_ 5y ago
  You’re right. My math is bad. Not sure how much a one bedroom rents for in North Dakota but imagine it’s 200% or more in CA.
sjg007 5y ago
There was that kid who donated a kidney for an iPhone 4.

angmarsbane 5y ago

I think it's really the cost of housing and unbearable commutes that people are more against than being in the office. If people could have short commutes and reasonable housing I don't think time in office would be fought as hard.

pseudalopex 5y ago
Don't forget open floor plans.
andrei_says_ 5y ago
As one of the “people” I can say that being in the office is a significant downgrade compared to WFH. Being confined in specific place for 8 hours a day does not make sense for me. My colleagues’ zoom rooms are 1-click away during work hours. The factory floor model does not apply when all you process is information. I know managers probably still want to see their workers in their seats but trust beats micromanagement.

radicaldreamer 5y ago

Depends on how much you make and cost of living is tangible while quality of life due to weather and proximity to the kind of nature SF has is intangible. Because everyone’s value of the latter is different, it will always make sense on paper to leave California and the Bay Area.

subsubzero 5y ago

There's so many more costs than you listed as well(CA living), agree with all your points though :) - Gas is the most expensive in the nation, right now a gallon in my town is $4.60 for 87. - State taxes are highest in the nation, for most professional incomes taxes are above 10%. - Sales tax is also very high, around 9% for most purchases, some states have no sales tax. - Food is extremely expensive, I recently traveled to Arizona and food was about 30-40% cheaper than CA. - Professional services are also very expensive, think doctor, eye exam, etc. - Construction costs are about 50% higher than most areas of the country. - As for housing, I would say say CA and the bay area in particular are extremely expensive. A typical house in the bay area is around $1.4M now, in a good area look to spend $2M., An average house in California now costs $850k, the highest its ever been. Contrast that to the average cost of a house in the US as being $350k.

Bud 5y ago

Spending 30% more? More like 130% more, based on my very recent homebuying experience in another very nice city compared to what that experience would have been like in the Bay Area.

andrei_says_ 5y ago
You’re right. My math is bad. Not sure how much a one bedroom rents for in North Dakota but imagine it’s 200% or more in CA.

sjg007 5y ago

There was that kid who donated a kidney for an iPhone 4.