7 ms·

Not directly addressing your point, but how common is it for someone to be a FAANG developer - extremely well compensated and smart by all accounts - and not ha

by pc86 5y ago

Not directly addressing your point, but how common is it for someone to be a FAANG developer - extremely well compensated and smart by all accounts - and not have other options? An argument like this makes sense for the random dev shops and non-tech company dev departments across the country. For many of those, the top 1 or 2 people are arguably good enough to switch over to FAANG or HFT or some other very highly compensated thing if they really want to. I would expect everyone at a FAANG to basically walk into a comparable or better role at a more "traditional" employer.

phreeza 5y ago
As a FAANG employee myself, I think your opinion of the average FAANG developer is perhaps a bit too generous.
- pc86 5y ago
  That's certainly possible :) Even as someone with over a decade of work experience it's somewhat aspirational to work for a FAANG and get that big paycheck and all those RSUs. But no WFH is a deal-breaker unless they start opening up offices in Milwaukee soon.
  - BooneJS 5y ago
    Google and Amazon are both in Madison.
    - pc86 5y ago
      I actually did look them all up after posting this comment, and you're right. And Microsoft says they have offices in Waukesha and Wauwatosa but it looks like they both point to a sales-only office in downtown Milwaukee.
    - OldHand2018 5y ago
      I doubt a lot of people would commute between Milwaukee and Madison when the Amtrak Hiawatha is 1.5 hours from Milwaukee to Chicago, within walking distance to Google Chicago.
    - jhickok 5y ago
      I know the Google building but I was not aware Amazon was in Madison in any substantive manner. Is it an Amazon building or a company they acquired?
      - BooneJS 5y ago
        Shopbop. https://www.amazon.jobs/en/location/madison-wi https://www.amazon.jobs/en/location/madison-wi
    - randcraw 5y ago
      It's probably like Google's office in Ann Arbor -- 450 people in advertising, marketing, and sales.
      - BooneJS 5y ago
        No, we’re actually all hardware and software engineering in Madison.
- sumtechguy 5y ago
  What many miss is also these large companies are doing something very interesting in the labor market. They are starving the competition. They spend a bit extra on labor but they get a long term benefit of lower number of effective competitors. MS did this for years in the 90s. Apple/Atari/Sony/IBM did it in the 80s. Being in office ('free lunch', perks, etc) is part of that lock in. If people are at home then they are more likely to wander off and find another job as at that point the only real difference between jobs is the kind of thing you work on and money.
  - phreeza 5y ago
    I agree with the first part, not so sure about the conclusion though. What makes you think that WFH increases attrition? The FAANGs could easily spend some additional dollars to make "their" WFH more attractive than the competitions, similar to what they did with offices.
    - bluGill 5y ago
      Depends a lot. WFH when most companies won't allow it is a perk that will keep people around. However once WFH is a common thing it is much easier to switch. If you WFH you can work anywhere in the country (in theory world, but there are tricky issues there that I don't know much about) which means you can switch from a job in the Bay to NYC with no problem, then jump to the one job in some tiny village in Montana - all without leaving your family. Family is the key above. I moved to a different state from my family and I often feel the loss. It is now a big deal to go visit. I can't "call in a few favors" when I need my house painted (I'm also not called upon to help). Once you don't live near friends/family moving is just about the relocation package. Once you have friends and family around it is personally hard to move as you throw all of that away. By WFH you can ignore all that and live where it works best for your life. Now yes FAANG can give me a bit extra money if they want. However I've reached the point where money isn't my only motivation. I want interesting/fulfilling work, which if I decide they don't offer they can't really change the offer to give me.
      - phreeza 5y ago
- r00t4ccess 5y ago
  As a fellow FAANG, I completely agree
endtime 5y ago
Sure, there are always other options. But there's also inertia - switching jobs is stressful and risky. Forcing people back to the office provides a push that might get people to think, "Y'know what, maybe <competitor> will hire me at L+1, and let me work remotely." The employees who can actually get the L+1 offer are the stronger ones.
cnzac 5y ago
You may walk in because of your CV, but the new employer may find out that an elite university and FMAGA resume does not guarantee programming and software design skills. Some of the stacks at these companies are quite horrible.

by pc86 5y ago

phreeza 5y ago

As a FAANG employee myself, I think your opinion of the average FAANG developer is perhaps a bit too generous.

pc86 5y ago
That's certainly possible :) Even as someone with over a decade of work experience it's somewhat aspirational to work for a FAANG and get that big paycheck and all those RSUs. But no WFH is a deal-breaker unless they start opening up offices in Milwaukee soon.
- BooneJS 5y ago
  Google and Amazon are both in Madison.
  - pc86 5y ago
    I actually did look them all up after posting this comment, and you're right. And Microsoft says they have offices in Waukesha and Wauwatosa but it looks like they both point to a sales-only office in downtown Milwaukee.
  - OldHand2018 5y ago
    I doubt a lot of people would commute between Milwaukee and Madison when the Amtrak Hiawatha is 1.5 hours from Milwaukee to Chicago, within walking distance to Google Chicago.
  - jhickok 5y ago
    I know the Google building but I was not aware Amazon was in Madison in any substantive manner. Is it an Amazon building or a company they acquired?
    - BooneJS 5y ago
      Shopbop. https://www.amazon.jobs/en/location/madison-wi https://www.amazon.jobs/en/location/madison-wi
  - randcraw 5y ago
    It's probably like Google's office in Ann Arbor -- 450 people in advertising, marketing, and sales.
    - BooneJS 5y ago
      No, we’re actually all hardware and software engineering in Madison.
sumtechguy 5y ago
What many miss is also these large companies are doing something very interesting in the labor market. They are starving the competition. They spend a bit extra on labor but they get a long term benefit of lower number of effective competitors. MS did this for years in the 90s. Apple/Atari/Sony/IBM did it in the 80s. Being in office ('free lunch', perks, etc) is part of that lock in. If people are at home then they are more likely to wander off and find another job as at that point the only real difference between jobs is the kind of thing you work on and money.
- phreeza 5y ago
  I agree with the first part, not so sure about the conclusion though. What makes you think that WFH increases attrition? The FAANGs could easily spend some additional dollars to make "their" WFH more attractive than the competitions, similar to what they did with offices.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Depends a lot. WFH when most companies won't allow it is a perk that will keep people around. However once WFH is a common thing it is much easier to switch. If you WFH you can work anywhere in the country (in theory world, but there are tricky issues there that I don't know much about) which means you can switch from a job in the Bay to NYC with no problem, then jump to the one job in some tiny village in Montana - all without leaving your family. Family is the key above. I moved to a different state from my family and I often feel the loss. It is now a big deal to go visit. I can't "call in a few favors" when I need my house painted (I'm also not called upon to help). Once you don't live near friends/family moving is just about the relocation package. Once you have friends and family around it is personally hard to move as you throw all of that away. By WFH you can ignore all that and live where it works best for your life. Now yes FAANG can give me a bit extra money if they want. However I've reached the point where money isn't my only motivation. I want interesting/fulfilling work, which if I decide they don't offer they can't really change the offer to give me.
    - phreeza 5y ago
r00t4ccess 5y ago
As a fellow FAANG, I completely agree

endtime 5y ago

Sure, there are always other options. But there's also inertia - switching jobs is stressful and risky. Forcing people back to the office provides a push that might get people to think, "Y'know what, maybe <competitor> will hire me at L+1, and let me work remotely." The employees who can actually get the L+1 offer are the stronger ones.

cnzac 5y ago

You may walk in because of your CV, but the new employer may find out that an elite university and FMAGA resume does not guarantee programming and software design skills. Some of the stacks at these companies are quite horrible.