5 ms·

But the rate of product/services that machinery will produce will make that even a small tax to corporations producing everything autonomously will be enough to

by gutino 5y ago

But the rate of product/services that machinery will produce will make that even a small tax to corporations producing everything autonomously will be enough to feed and give a quality of life to everyone with an UBI or partial time jobs. You really want to push for high productivity across all industries, even if that means sacrificing jobs in the short term, because history demonstrated after that, new and more human jobs emerge latter.

ohgodplsno 5y ago
The current state of most wealthy countries do not show any hint of any significant corporation tax. Wealth will continue to accrue in the hands of the few.
- mikepurvis 5y ago
  Indeed, even here on HN, it's a pretty regular talking point in the comments that the only fair corporate tax rate is 0%.
angfxt 5y ago
Have fun being a hairdresser or prostitute for the 0.01% then. New jobs in academic fields will not emerge. Already now a significant percentage of degree holders are forced into bullshit jobs.
- throwaway3699 5y ago
  Would the implication be that we are stagnating as a species then?
  - belter 5y ago
    Not stagnating but moving into an "Elysium" (as in the film) type of society.
pc86 5y ago
Every decade was supposed to see fewer hours working for higher pay and quality of life. It didn't happen, as business owners (not just 1% fat cats, the owners of mom and pop shops are at least as guilty as anyone, they just sucked at scaling their avarice). So the claim that this technological revolution will be different and that it will result in a broad social safety net, universal basic income, and substantive, well-paid part-time work is a joke but not a very good one. It will be more of the same - massive concentration of wealth among those who already hold enough capital to wield it effectively. A few lucky ones who manage to create their own wealth. And those left behind working more hours for less.
- nextaccountic 5y ago
  You are right that this won't happen by itself. We need another economic system, and not just hope that this time things will magically fix themselves.
  - georgeplusplus 5y ago
    This new economic system you want has been in use since the 70s. Everything about the economy is practically socially managed these days. What part of printing trillions of dollars to stimulate economic productivity is somehow a free market system?
    - nextaccountic 5y ago
      I wasn't talking about free market, but the state of present economy. Unfortunately, those trillions of dollars aren't being distributed to the people, but instead is concentrated in the hands of the richest.
      - georgeplusplus 5y ago
        Im pretty sure the people got 5000$ on average in stimulus checks at the tune of 9 trillion dollars these last few months.
- 5y ago
merpnderp 5y ago
If AI can replace us with difficult tasks, it can repress us. How are you going to agitate for a UBI when AI has identified you as a likely agitator and sends in the robots to arrest you?
Kaze404 5y ago
So we give away the world to the 1% and are supposed to be satisfied with the "privilege" of being able to eat?
- SXX 5y ago
  Just look at authocratic countries. That top 1% still need something like 3-4% to work for beaurocracy and 3-5% for armed and police forces. And there are always family connections and relatives of relatives who want better living. So fortunatelly no AI will ever replace corruption and other human society flaws. But yeah remaining 80-90% of population will have quality of life and bullshit jobs because it's how the world is right now outside of western countries bubble.
briefcomment 5y ago
The problem with this is that you increasingly have to put your trust in the hands of a shrinking group of owners (people who have the rights to the automated productivity). At some point, those owners are just going to stop supporting everyone else (will probably happen when they have the ability to create everything they could ever want with automation - think robot farms, robot security forces, all encompassing automated monitoring, robot construction, etc.)
aseipp 5y ago
Yeah, for sure, the corporations that already pay effectively $0 in tax today are going to suddenly decide in the future to be benevolent and usher in the era of UBI and prosperity for all of humankind. They definitely won't continue to accumulate capital at the expense of everything else and use that to solidify their grasp of the future. It would be a lot easier if more people on this website would just be honest with themselves and everyone else and simply admit they think feudalism is good and that serfs shouldn't be so uppity. But not me, of course; I won't be a serf. Now if you'll excuse me, someone gave me a really good deal on a bridge that I'm going to go buy...

by gutino 5y ago

ohgodplsno 5y ago

The current state of most wealthy countries do not show any hint of any significant corporation tax. Wealth will continue to accrue in the hands of the few.

mikepurvis 5y ago
Indeed, even here on HN, it's a pretty regular talking point in the comments that the only fair corporate tax rate is 0%.

angfxt 5y ago

Have fun being a hairdresser or prostitute for the 0.01% then. New jobs in academic fields will not emerge. Already now a significant percentage of degree holders are forced into bullshit jobs.

throwaway3699 5y ago
Would the implication be that we are stagnating as a species then?
- belter 5y ago
  Not stagnating but moving into an "Elysium" (as in the film) type of society.

pc86 5y ago

Every decade was supposed to see fewer hours working for higher pay and quality of life. It didn't happen, as business owners (not just 1% fat cats, the owners of mom and pop shops are at least as guilty as anyone, they just sucked at scaling their avarice). So the claim that this technological revolution will be different and that it will result in a broad social safety net, universal basic income, and substantive, well-paid part-time work is a joke but not a very good one. It will be more of the same - massive concentration of wealth among those who already hold enough capital to wield it effectively. A few lucky ones who manage to create their own wealth. And those left behind working more hours for less.

nextaccountic 5y ago
You are right that this won't happen by itself. We need another economic system, and not just hope that this time things will magically fix themselves.
- georgeplusplus 5y ago
  This new economic system you want has been in use since the 70s. Everything about the economy is practically socially managed these days. What part of printing trillions of dollars to stimulate economic productivity is somehow a free market system?
  - nextaccountic 5y ago
    I wasn't talking about free market, but the state of present economy. Unfortunately, those trillions of dollars aren't being distributed to the people, but instead is concentrated in the hands of the richest.
    - georgeplusplus 5y ago
      Im pretty sure the people got 5000$ on average in stimulus checks at the tune of 9 trillion dollars these last few months.
5y ago

merpnderp 5y ago

If AI can replace us with difficult tasks, it can repress us. How are you going to agitate for a UBI when AI has identified you as a likely agitator and sends in the robots to arrest you?

Kaze404 5y ago

So we give away the world to the 1% and are supposed to be satisfied with the "privilege" of being able to eat?

SXX 5y ago
Just look at authocratic countries. That top 1% still need something like 3-4% to work for beaurocracy and 3-5% for armed and police forces. And there are always family connections and relatives of relatives who want better living. So fortunatelly no AI will ever replace corruption and other human society flaws. But yeah remaining 80-90% of population will have quality of life and bullshit jobs because it's how the world is right now outside of western countries bubble.

briefcomment 5y ago

The problem with this is that you increasingly have to put your trust in the hands of a shrinking group of owners (people who have the rights to the automated productivity). At some point, those owners are just going to stop supporting everyone else (will probably happen when they have the ability to create everything they could ever want with automation - think robot farms, robot security forces, all encompassing automated monitoring, robot construction, etc.)

aseipp 5y ago

Yeah, for sure, the corporations that already pay effectively $0 in tax today are going to suddenly decide in the future to be benevolent and usher in the era of UBI and prosperity for all of humankind. They definitely won't continue to accumulate capital at the expense of everything else and use that to solidify their grasp of the future. It would be a lot easier if more people on this website would just be honest with themselves and everyone else and simply admit they think feudalism is good and that serfs shouldn't be so uppity. But not me, of course; I won't be a serf. Now if you'll excuse me, someone gave me a really good deal on a bridge that I'm going to go buy...